Creation vs Evolution

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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acehighinfinity
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Creation vs Evolution

Post #1

Post by acehighinfinity »

Hey yall,

I watched the debate video on Ken Ham vs Bill Nye. Observational Science vs The Holy Bible - creationist. Youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_04S0fYU7FI

I have numbered some of them for Science (evolution) a. and b. for Creation/Holy Bible. I do have a lot of questions here, and if you don't mind answering them that would be great:

1.a - How did consciousness(mind) come from 'Matter'? Bill Nye and many scientist are unable to answer this.
1.b - Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them." and Genesis 3:21-24 "The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.�
- Man was cursed with the knowledge of Good and Evil (consciousness/mind).

2.a - What scientific evidence support do you have for the Age Of Earth? 4.5 Billion years old (Earth/Universe).
2.b - The holy bible works out to 6000-10000yrs for the age of Earth.


3. - How did the Atom before the Big Bang get there? We know the Big Bang is only a theory.

4.a - How were dinosaurs killed? There are two theories for Science; meteorite and disease.
4.b - Genesis 6:7-8 " So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them..."
- A global flood is the very cause.

5. If Science believes homo-sapiens existed an estimate of 200,000yrs ago and Earth is around 4.5 Billions years old. - Why is there a long period (massive gap) of years between Earth and homo-sapiens?

6. Is the moon in its correct place as we see it today if 4.5 Billion years was true? According to the moon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon. "The Moon's linear distance from Earth is currently increasing at a rate of 3.82±0.07 cm per year, but this rate is not constant"
- Why do they say the moon is moving away from Earth but its not constant? Does the moon have a start and stop button? The calculation does not add up.
Last edited by acehighinfinity on Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jashwell
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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #2

Post by Jashwell »

Big Bang, Cosmology, Abiogenesis & Evolution =/= Evolution
acehighinfinity wrote: Hey yall,

I watched the debate video on Ken Ham vs Bill Nye. Observational Science vs The Holy Bible - creationist.

I have numbered some of them for Science (evolution) a. and b. for Creation/Holy Bible. I do have a lot of questions here, and if you don't mind answering them that would be great:

1.a - How did consciousness(mind) come from 'Matter'? Bill Nye and many scientist are unable to answer this.
1.b - Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them." and Genesis 3:21-24 "The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.�
- Man was cursed with the knowledge of Good and Evil (consciousness/mind).

2.a - What scientific evidence support do you have for the Age Of Earth? 4.5 Billion years old (Earth/Universe).
2.b - The holy bible works out to 6000-10000yrs for the age of Earth.


3. - How did the Atom before the Big Bang get there? We know the Big Bang is only a theory.

4.a - How were dinosaurs killed? There are two theories for Science; meteorite and disease.
4.b - Genesis 6:7-8 " So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them..."
- A global flood is the very cause.

5. If Science believes homo-sapiens existed an estimate of 200,000yrs ago and Earth is around 4.5 Billions years old. - Why is there a long period (massive gap) of years between Earth and homo-sapiens?

6. Is the moon in its correct place as we see it today if 4.5 Billion years was true? According to the moon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon. "The Moon's linear distance from Earth is currently increasing at a rate of 3.82±0.07 cm per year, but this rate is not constant"
- Why do they say the moon is moving away from Earth but its not constant? Does the moon have a start and stop button? The calculation does not add up.
[1a]
Consciousness/mind isn't fully understood, but in my understanding it's emergent from complex information processes. There's no more reason to find it weird that a brain can think than that a calculator can calculate.

[1b] Was neither Adam nor Eve consciouss before they ate from the fruit of the tree of life? If so, did they choose to eat it?

[2b]Things that are dramatically against a 10k year old Earth:
All forms of radiometric dating
Tree rings
Archeology
Paleontology
Biology
Geology
Astrophysics
etc

[3] There wasn't 'an atom' before the big bang. We don't understand what there was, but it certainly wasn't an atom. Why would the 'atom' have to get there? Couldn't it have always been there?

"Big Bang is only a theory" just like the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, Theory of Bacteria, Molecular Theory, Evolutionary Theory.

[4a] Asteroid, pretty conclusive, we've found the crater too.
[4b]Global flood is not found in the geological or biological record.

[5] Because Evolution takes time. A LOT OF TIME.
Timeline:
0.8 bln years post earth: First single celled life forms
3.5 bln years post earth: First multi cellular life
~4 bln years post earth: first animals, fish. (that eat cellular life)
Also the first land plants.

You said the dinosaurs were killed, you are aware they lived 65 MILLION years ago, right?

[6] It's not constant because the moon is slowly spiralling away from the Earth. The moon isn't just going back and forth towards Earth.

Joab
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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #3

Post by Joab »

[Replying to post 1 by acehighinfinity]

Do you mind terribly if you can confirm for me whether or not god created evil? Thanks. :)
What the world needs now
Is love sweet love
It's the only thing
That there's just to little of.
No not just for some
But for everyone

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acehighinfinity
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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #4

Post by acehighinfinity »

[Replying to post 2 by Jashwell]
[1a]
Consciousness/mind isn't fully understood, but in my understanding it's emergent from complex information processes. There's no more reason to find it weird that a brain can think than that a calculator can calculate.
Why do you respond there is no reason to find it weird? We are talking about the existence/origin of a human being? Did the human mind appear in thin-air??
[1b] Was neither Adam nor Eve consciouss before they ate from the fruit of the tree of life? If so, did they choose to eat it?
Yes they were, the only difference was the freedom of nakedness was not shameful to them until after they disobeyed GOD in the garden of Eden - then receiving the knowledge of Good and Evil.
[2b]Things that are dramatically against a 10k year old Earth:
All forms of radiometric dating
Tree rings
Archeology
Paleontology
Biology
Geology
Astrophysics
etc
Forgot to mention, I'm no scientist to find out :P
[3] There wasn't 'an atom' before the big bang. We don't understand what there was, but it certainly wasn't an atom. Why would the 'atom' have to get there? Couldn't it have always been there?
I'm glad you said that. That has always been the problem with Observational Science especially when "No one was there???". So how do you support all those theories?

"Big Bang is only a theory" just like the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, Theory of Bacteria, Molecular Theory, Evolutionary Theory. Just because Big Bang theory, doesn't mean gravity, etc, theory are ru
[4a] Asteroid, pretty conclusive, we've found the crater too.
You need to reference and date them exactly how they relate. Oh wait didn't you say "No one was there???"
[4b]Global flood is not found in the geological or biological record - yea we get that part(science)
You said the dinosaurs were killed, you are aware they lived 65 MILLION years ago, right?
Did I forgot to mention I believe in the Holy Bible? Come on now do I need to remind you "No one was there???" That's what observational science is. I studied science at school and I aware of its history.
[6] It's not constant because the moon is slowly spiralling away from the Earth. The moon isn't just going back and forth towards Earth.
So 4.5 Billion Years the moon is spiraling away from Earth?
Last edited by acehighinfinity on Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

Jashwell
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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #5

Post by Jashwell »

acehighinfinity wrote: [Replying to post 2 by Jashwell]
[1a]
Consciousness/mind isn't fully understood, but in my understanding it's emergent from complex information processes. There's no more reason to find it weird that a brain can think than that a calculator can calculate.
Why do you respond there is no reason to find it weird? We are talking about the existence/origin of a human being? Did you mind appear in thin-air??
[1b] Was neither Adam nor Eve consciouss before they ate from the fruit of the tree of life? If so, did they choose to eat it?
Yes they were, the only difference was the freedom of nakedness was not shameful to them until after they disobeyed GOD in the garden of Eden - then receiving the knowledge of Good and Evil.
[2b]Things that are dramatically against a 10k year old Earth:
All forms of radiometric dating
Tree rings
Archeology
Paleontology
Biology
Geology
Astrophysics
etc
Forgot to mention, I'm no scientist to find out :P
[3] There wasn't 'an atom' before the big bang. We don't understand what there was, but it certainly wasn't an atom. Why would the 'atom' have to get there? Couldn't it have always been there?
I'm glad you said that. That has always been the problem with Observational Science especially when "No one was there???". So how do you support all those theories?

"Big Bang is only a theory" just like the Theory of Gravity, Atomic Theory, Theory of Bacteria, Molecular Theory, Evolutionary Theory. Just because Big Bang theory, doesn't mean gravity, etc, theory are ru
[4a] Asteroid, pretty conclusive, we've found the crater too.
You need to reference and date them exactly how they relate. Oh wait didn't you say "No one was there???"
[4b]Global flood is not found in the geological or biological record - yea we get that part(science)
You said the dinosaurs were killed, you are aware they lived 65 MILLION years ago, right?
Did I forgot to mention I believe in the Holy Bible? Come on now do I need to remind you "No one was there???" That's what observational science is. I studied science at school and I aware of its history.
[6] It's not constant because the moon is slowly spiralling away from the Earth. The moon isn't just going back and forth towards Earth.
So 4.5 Billion Years the moon is spiraling away from Earth?
I don't know when the moon started spiralling away from the Earth or how long until it escapes the Earth's influence.

You believe in the Holy Bible? But you weren't there!

I'm worried by the fact you're saying "Yeah, we GET that science has loads of evidence against Young Earth Creationism, but it's Science!"
The Science that goes into the old earth model and evolution is no different from the science going into aeroplanes, skyscrapers, the internet you're using, cars, etc.

Why would I find it weird? Not finding things weird is default. You have to give reason to find something weird.
Do you think calculators were put there by the great god of TI82s?
If not, how does Calculator come from matter? Do you think calculators just come from thin air?

acehighinfinity
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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #6

Post by acehighinfinity »

Joab wrote: [Replying to post 1 by acehighinfinity]

Do you mind terribly if you can confirm for me whether or not god created evil? Thanks. :)
What would be your point to the OP? GOD is good. GOD created the Garden of Eden and many trees (tree knowledge of Good and Evil). So what do you think? It is not necessarily to say GOD planted the Tree of Good and Evil and then say GOD did create Evil. When in fact Adam and Eve disobeyed GOD and when they were forbidden from eating that particular tree (Good and Evil). Since then man can reject good and evil is used. Whether it be the Angels in heaven or humans on Earth. Evil is only the absence of Good. The question you should be asking is, why did GOD create the Tree of Knowledge Good and Evil? Is it test or there more to it?

We have a basic law not to kill/murder someone. But there are some who do, and justice is served. So who in this picture created evil to kill/murder someone; GOD or Humans?

acehighinfinity
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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #7

Post by acehighinfinity »

[Replying to Jashwell]
I don't know when the moon started spiralling away from the Earth or how long until it escapes the Earth's influence.
You believe in the Holy Bible? But you weren't there!
Neither were you!
I'm worried by the fact you're saying "Yeah, we GET that science has loads of evidence against Young Earth Creationism, but it's Science!"
The Science that goes into the old earth model and evolution is no different from the science going into aeroplanes, skyscrapers, the internet you're using, cars, etc.

Why would I find it weird? Not finding things weird is default. You have to give reason to find something weird.
Do you think calculators were put there by the great god of TI82s?
If not, how does Calculator come from matter? Do you think calculators just come from thin air?
I'm not against science and its wonderful inventions; mobiles, etc, but I don't believe in observational Science especially when there is always going to be human error in this world. Oh and I do enjoy using my phone, internet, and cars very much. Thank you Science your the best...except for Evolution :P

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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #8

Post by Jashwell »

acehighinfinity wrote: [Replying to Jashwell]
I don't know when the moon started spiralling away from the Earth or how long until it escapes the Earth's influence.
You believe in the Holy Bible? But you weren't there!
Neither were you!
I'm worried by the fact you're saying "Yeah, we GET that science has loads of evidence against Young Earth Creationism, but it's Science!"
The Science that goes into the old earth model and evolution is no different from the science going into aeroplanes, skyscrapers, the internet you're using, cars, etc.

Why would I find it weird? Not finding things weird is default. You have to give reason to find something weird.
Do you think calculators were put there by the great god of TI82s?
If not, how does Calculator come from matter? Do you think calculators just come from thin air?
I'm not against science and its wonderful inventions; mobiles, etc, but I don't believe in observational Science especially when there is always going to be human error in this world. Oh and I do enjoy using my phone, internet, and cars very much. Thank you Science your the best...except for Evolution :P
You missed the point.
Us not being there doesn't mean we can't do science.

Evolution, by the way, is observed TODAY. Not just historically, but we've PHYSICALLY OBSERVED evolution in the past ten years.

All science is 'observational science'.
Do you think that we shouldn't have courts deciding whether people are guilty of crimes because we weren't there, and examining the evidence is observational science?

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Post #9

Post by Nilloc James »

This is a fantastic example of special pleading - accept science where it does not contradict the arbritary religous belief, deny it when it does.

Accepting the benifits of biology and rejecting evolution s like accepting GPS but rejecting relativity.

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Re: Creation vs Evolution

Post #10

Post by Ooberman »

acehighinfinity wrote: Hey yall,

I watched the debate video on Ken Ham vs Bill Nye. Observational Science vs The Holy Bible - creationist. Youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_04S0fYU7FI

I have numbered some of them for Science (evolution) a. and b. for Creation/Holy Bible. I do have a lot of questions here, and if you don't mind answering them that would be great:

1.a - How did consciousness(mind) come from 'Matter'? Bill Nye and many scientist are unable to answer this.
1.b - Genesis 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them." and Genesis 3:21-24 "The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.�
- Man was cursed with the knowledge of Good and Evil (consciousness/mind).

I missed the explanation. How did God do it? Did he create RNA first, then what did he do?

Your "explanation" is like you'd tell a 5 year old about babies and storks.


Please tell us how God created the proteins to make people.

EXPLAIN! Not tell us "God did it".


Because here is how nature did it:
What forces changed this barren wasteland into the beautiful garden that it is today? Biologists believe that the process that created life is something called evolution. Earth's ancient oceans while lifeless, were filled with the chemicals needed for life. These chemicals were not alive, but they were there sloshing around. They call these chemicals “primordial soup.� Instead of alphabet letters, this soup was filled with amino acids, proteins, lipids, and other basic components that are commonly found in lifeforms today.


Primordial Soup - The chemicals of life.
It is believed that life began on the shores of these ancient oceans in pools of water called tidal pools. These shallow pools would have been full of this “life soup�. Over many millions of years, as the ingredients of life splashed around in these pools, possibly helped by lightning strikes, they formed the first cells.
http://www.kidsbiology.com/biology_basi ... gins_4.php



So, did God push an amino acid towards another one, as a kind of Match Maker?


Please EXPLAIN!


It's very tiresome to hear Creationist repeat "God Did It" as an "explanation". I can't believe they are this anti-intellectual, but my data set is suffering from any data points that are changing the interpretation.
Thinking about God's opinions and thinking about your own opinions uses an identical thought process. - Tomas Rees

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