Negative Faith

[connermt]

Believers have faith that god exists.
Their faith is not based on facts, but belief (which can exist independent of facts/data/proof) - which is fine - no condemnation here for that.

So can non-believers have 'faith' there is no god?

After all, both groups have the same amount of evidence for their case: belief. That's it.

It seems that faith erases 'knowledge' in the sense of 'knowing' this or that, so it stands to reason one can have faith there is no god and be just as steadfast in said belief than a theist.

Is this possible?

[1213]

[Replying to connermt]

I think faith is form of word faithful, which is like loyalty. Atheist can be faithful for his ism. I think atheist can remain faithfully atheist, even if God would stand right in front of him, if he really don’t want to believe.

But maybe it is not negative faith, but faith in some other thing or idea. Faith is in my opinion on/off thing and I don’t think it can be negative.

[connermt]

[Replying to connermt]

I think faith is form of word faithful, which is like loyalty. Atheist can be faithful for his ism. I think atheist can remain faithfully atheist, even if God would stand right in front of him, if he really don’t want to believe.

But maybe it is not negative faith, but faith in some other thing or idea. Faith is in my opinion on/off thing and I don’t think it can be negative.

Negative faith was a term I made up for the purpose of this post
The point being, can someone have faith in something NOT existing as well as existing.
Thanks for the input

[Jashwell]

Yes, you can have faith (in the context of believe without reason) in the non-existence of an object, just as with its existence.

As it happens, I actually believe there is no God (depending on the definition of God). I think there are good reasons to believe this, and so it's not the same as faith. Many theists think there is good reason for believing in God, and so they don't think they're in a faith based position, either.

If faith is taken in the context of loyalty, this doesn't apply to isms whatsoever.
I'm not "loyal" to atheism. I'm just an atheist.

[connermt]

Yes, you can have faith (in the context of believe without evidence) in the non-existence of an object, just as with its existence.

If faith is taken in the context of loyalty, this doesn't apply to isms whatsoever.
I'm not "loyal" to atheism. I'm just an atheist.

A good point: does faith require loyality?
Or does it only require 'word of mouth'?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to 1213]

I think faith is form of word faithful, which is like loyalty. Atheist can be faithful for his ism. I think atheist can remain faithfully atheist, even if God would stand right in front of him, if he really don’t want to believe.

Atheism is not an ideal that someone resolves to be faithful to. It's a descriptive term. I don't stubbornly choose to be faithful to atheism, come hell or high-water. Nor do I have any special feeling of loyalty to atheism. I am an atheist by definition.

[JoeyKnothead]

From the OP:

Negative faith, does it exist?

Yes. All them that think their god hates him them, that or the other'n, and they seek legislative authority to get onto 'em for it, that's the negative faith, 'cause that's the first bunch can't ever showed they uttered them the first bit of truth.

That bunch seeking to legislate their unproven, unprovable godly notions, that right there is where not only does negative faith exist, but a good bunch suffer it, 'cause that first bunch thinks they don't.

Negative faith is declaring your god agrees with you, 'bout your getting onto others, as you sit there absolutely incapable of showing the first bit of truth ever slipt your mouth.

But don't it beat all, you capitalate that t there, and folks think you done did you a big pile of it.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to connermt]

I think faith is form of word faithful, which is like loyalty. Atheist can be faithful for his ism. I think atheist can remain faithfully atheist, even if God would stand right in front of him, if he really don’t want to believe.

But maybe it is not negative faith, but faith in some other thing or idea. Faith is in my opinion on/off thing and I don’t think it can be negative.

Negative faith was a term I made up for the purpose of this post
The point being, can someone have faith in something NOT existing as well as existing.
Thanks for the input

Sure. Faith means 'trust." The biblical definition of trust is NOT 'belief,' but rather action based on belief; that is 'faith without works is dead faith, being alone,' and "you believe...the devils believe, and tremble' sort of thing. Believing isn't faith. One can believe something to be true, and still not have faith in it, as the bible rather clearly illustrates.

...........and yes, I AM using the Bible as a source text here, because 'faith' as a concept is under discussion, and certainly it is appropriate to use the document that defines the Christian idea of faith to show that definition.

One comes to believe something because of something else. Nobody believes in something for no reason at all. Now you might not agree with the reason; it might utterly fail to convince you. Doesn't matter; it's 'something,' and it prompts belief in someone.

If that belief is strong enough for trust, then there's faith.

When I was a little kid...fourth grade, I think it was....I had to cross a frozen creek, twice, to get to school. I crossed once on a plank about a foot wide and about, oh, six feet long; one side was in the branches of a tree and the other rested on the opposite bank. I had to step up into the tree about two feet to get on the plank.

The other crossing was a solid footbridge, a good two or two and a half feet wide complete with handrails, both ends solidly attached to the banks of the creek.

In the winter the creek would freeze, and thus swell; the ice would always cover the wide bridge by two to three feet, and would sometimes cover the narrow plank, too, although it was nearly six feet above the water.

Now, thinking back, I am astounded at myself (and my parents, frankly...I'd no more let my kids on that plank than allow them to jump off cliffs.

Oh.

Wait.

[yt][/yt]


nevermind.)


ANYway....

anybody with any sense would trust the good, wide bridge and be very suspicious of the plank, as unstable, narrow and high as it was, but....

My cousin loved to push me off the low, wide bridge. It made me nervous. I'd creep across it, and sometimes, if the weather was good and the creek was down, I forgot the bridge altogether and just waded through the water.

But I loved that plank. It was adventure. It was fantastical. Winter, Summer, nevermind, I just knew that was put there specially for me to play on. I danced across it.

I had faith in both bridges BECAUSE I believed they'd hold me up. I had great faith in the plank....and sometimes my faith failed me at the low, wide bridge. The NT talks rather clearly that faith requires belief, but belief doesn't always inspire faith, and not once does it claim that belief must be founded on nothing but air.

It DOES say that if you believe, then it's important to act according to your beliefs, and that's faith.

So is 'negative faith' possible? Well, if you mean 'faith in the negative,' that is, is it possible for you to act upon your belief that there is no God?

Absolutely. It's demonstrated all the time.

[Nickman]

Believers have faith that god exists.
Their faith is not based on facts, but belief (which can exist independent of facts/data/proof) - which is fine - no condemnation here for that.

So can non-believers have 'faith' there is no god?

After all, both groups have the same amount of evidence for their case: belief. That's it.

It seems that faith erases 'knowledge' in the sense of 'knowing' this or that, so it stands to reason one can have faith there is no god and be just as steadfast in said belief than a theist.

Is this possible?

Yes. Faith just means complete trust in someone or something. We can put faith in anything, such as the lottery, or even anti-theist ideas.

[Ooberman]

Apparently, Faith means "Hope you won't die" and Faith is confirmed as long as you have Faith.

I wonder about the people who died when hang gliding. Does it bother the person of Faith their Faith died with them?