Would Jesus oppose labor unions?

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RobertUrbanek
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Would Jesus oppose labor unions?

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Post by RobertUrbanek »

I'm not sure Jesus would have gotten along with labor unions.

According to Matthew 20:1–16 Jesus says that any "laborer" who accepts the invitation to the work in the vineyard (said by Jesus to represent the Kingdom of Heaven), no matter how late in the day, will receive an equal reward with those who have been faithful the longest.

Of course, for the analogy to work, you have to agree that the vineyard owner is like God and the workers are like children, not a relationship conducive to collective bargaining.

Can you imagine any union agreeing that people working one hour would be paid the same as those working eight? Unless, of course, the union was run by Tony Soprano, in which case his pals would lounge around for seven hours in lawn chairs, then maybe work the last hour.
Untroubled, scornful, outrageous — That is how wisdom wants us to be. She is a woman and never loves anyone but a warrior — Friedrich Nietzsche

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Post #2

Post by bjs »

It’s a parable. Economically it makes no sense. That’s part of the point. God’s grace is not based on hours worked on credit earned. It is based on God’s compassion.

Parables are not designed to be taken literally, so the parable of the Workers in the Vineyard cannot be compared to modern labor unions.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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RobertUrbanek
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Post by RobertUrbanek »

bjs wrote: It’s a parable. Economically it makes no sense. That’s part of the point. God’s grace is not based on hours worked on credit earned. It is based on God’s compassion.

Parables are not designed to be taken literally, so the parable of the Workers in the Vineyard cannot be compared to modern labor unions.
My point is that the Christian standard of judgment seems to violate all common sense. You can kill and steal all your life but if you are contrite and accept Jesus at the last possible moment, you go to heaven. I'm surprised that so many people have swallowed this pro-criminal theology hook, line and sinker.
Untroubled, scornful, outrageous — That is how wisdom wants us to be. She is a woman and never loves anyone but a warrior — Friedrich Nietzsche

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Post #4

Post by connermt »

RobertUrbanek wrote:
bjs wrote: It’s a parable. Economically it makes no sense. That’s part of the point. God’s grace is not based on hours worked on credit earned. It is based on God’s compassion.

Parables are not designed to be taken literally, so the parable of the Workers in the Vineyard cannot be compared to modern labor unions.
My point is that the Christian standard of judgment seems to violate all common sense. You can kill and steal all your life but if you are contrite and accept Jesus at the last possible moment, you go to heaven. I'm surprised that so many people have swallowed this pro-criminal theology hook, line and sinker.
Seems hardly fair to the one who suffers through life trying to do good while the 'deathbed confessional' guy gets an instant pass, no?
It's just a very illogical and biased concept that encourages one to 'gamble' with their potential eternity.

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Re: Would Jesus oppose labor unions?

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Post by 1213 »

RobertUrbanek wrote: Can you imagine any union agreeing that people working one hour would be paid the same as those working eight? Unless, of course, the union was run by Tony Soprano, in which case his pals would lounge around for seven hours in lawn chairs, then maybe work the last hour.
If the worker has made agreement to work for certain wage there is no problem in my opinion.

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Post #6

Post by bjs »

RobertUrbanek wrote:
My point is that the Christian standard of judgment seems to violate all common sense. You can kill and steal all your life but if you are contrite and accept Jesus at the last possible moment, you go to heaven. I'm surprised that so many people have swallowed this pro-criminal theology hook, line and sinker.
connermt wrote:
Seems hardly fair to the one who suffers through life trying to do good while the 'deathbed confessional' guy gets an instant pass, no?
It's just a very illogical and biased concept that encourages one to 'gamble' with their potential eternity.

Indeed, mercy and compassion go against the way the people of this world do things – they violate “common sense.� And they are certainly unfair. “Fairness� would have nothing to do with compassion.

I admit that I have never fully understood non-theist ethics, so I will have to leave it to one of the more skilled non-theists to justify mercy and compassion from their worldview. From a Christian standpoint no matter how little sense compassion makes, no matter how much how “unfair� it is to show mercy, they remain great virtues.

My only other comment is that is a foolish “gamble� indeed to trust one’s salvation to a deathbed confession. To make such a plan is not genuine contrition. It is “playing the system� and trying to fool God. I believe that genuine contrition, even moments before death, would bring grace. But this would require actual repentance, not just the desire to avoid negative consequences.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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Post #7

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From the OP:
Would Jesus oppose labor unions?
I don't know if he'd directly oppose 'em, but it's a sure bet he don't wanna join the Nail Makers Local.
...
Can you imagine any union agreeing that people working one hour would be paid the same as those working eight?
Those unions that argue for a living wage for their members, only to see jobs go to exploited workers who must accept whatever wage they can.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
-Punkinhead Martin

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Post #8

Post by connermt »

[Replying to post 6 by bjs]
Indeed, mercy and compassion go against the way the people of this world do things – they violate “common sense.�
Sometimes they sure do.
From a Christian standpoint no matter how little sense compassion makes, no matter how much how “unfair� it is to show mercy, they remain great virtues.
The 'greatness' of it isn't really what I'm referencing here as that's an opinion and varies from person to person. I'm more concerned with how a supreme deity can (or even would) allow a death bed confessional to be acceptable. Compassion for the murderer and rapist who, in the last minutes of life, is now, all of a sudden, sorry for what they did gets heaven but a woman that truly doesn't believe in god doesn't? I would expect more from said deity. You mention playing the system to fool god - that sure seems like god is fooled in the previous scenario.
But you're right - god isn't 'fair' in the same way we are. Rather or not that's a good thing seems to be dependent on the person asked.

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