Are all atheists nihilists?

[Tim the Skeptic]

Got this from Widipedia:

Nihilism as a philosophical position argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists believe either (1) nothing exists (all there is is nothing); (2) the reality we humans experience does not exist at all as we see it; or (3) reality is unknowable, and thus understanding externality will always be practically fruitless and theoretically pointless.

My first thought is that all nihilists must be atheists, but not all atheists are nihilists. But I'm not sure why I feel that way. Any thoughts?

[McCulloch]

My first thought is that all nihilists must be atheists, but not all atheists are nihilists.

I think you are wrong. I can imagine a theist nihilist. He would think that God or the gods, are so far above him that nothing he does or can do would make any difference to them. While some theists accuse atheists of having to be nihilists, I disagree with them.

[Tim the Skeptic]

McCulloch

I think I see your point but that kinda sounds like a deist to me. Also would this God or Gods create the world to have no objective meaning?

I guess I feel that a nihilist is a depressed atheist. Or maybe that an atheist can believe that life only has the meaning you give it while a nihilist believes life doesn't and can never have meaning.

[McCulloch]

I think I see your point but that kinda sounds like a deist to me. Also would this God or Gods create the world to have no objective meaning?

I guess I feel that a nihilist is a depressed atheist. Or maybe that an atheist can believe that life only has the meaning you give it while a nihilist believes life doesn't and can never have meaning.

Wouldn't you think that the whole Gotterdammerung thing is both theist and nihilist.

[ST88]

Got this from Widipedia:

Nihilism as a philosophical position argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists believe either (1) nothing exists (all there is is nothing); (2) the reality we humans experience does not exist at all as we see it; or (3) reality is unknowable, and thus understanding externality will always be practically fruitless and theoretically pointless.

If you accept 2 or 3, then it is possible to be a theistic nihilist. JC God says that he is unknowable, and that reality is more than what we see -- he just won't tell us what exactly is beyond our perceivable reality, and trying to understand it is pointless (and possibly dangerous).

But those three points do not exactly follow from the previous definition. It is possible to believe that the universe is completely without objective purpose and not be depressed. It's very empowering, actually, because our purpose is what we can state it is. Nihilism has a negative connotation because the lack of inherent purpose philosophically allows societal mischief, but this is beyond the scope of what we might call classical nihilism.

[Tim the Skeptic]

St88 wrote:

It is possible to believe that the universe is completely without objective purpose and not be depressed. It's very empowering, actually, because our purpose is what we can state it is.

But isn't our "purpose" in a universe without a purpose ultimately an illusion or a self-deception? It's not "real" in the sense that it transends us. When we die, whatever "purpose" we had, dies with us.

[ST88]

St88 wrote:

It is possible to believe that the universe is completely without objective purpose and not be depressed. It's very empowering, actually, because our purpose is what we can state it is.

But isn't our "purpose" in a universe without a purpose ultimately an illusion or a self-deception? It's not "real" in the sense that it transends us. When we die, whatever "purpose" we had, dies with us.

Well, yes and no. It's possible to put your purpose to use beyond your own borders. Witness the drive to create art & architecture, have children, and save the environment. It's classic existentialist angst. What is my legacy?

By contrast, objective purpose (i.e., religious) actually dehumanizes us because it removes these purposes and makes us all simply cogs in a giant machine.

I'm not sure I get why you're making the distinction between "real" purpose and "unreal(?)" purpose. A purpose that transcends your own purpose is one that you've either taken on or have passed down to someone else. But even if you choose to blaze your own trail and flame out, your purpose was real.

[Bugmaster]

Nihilism as a philosophical position argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. ... My first thought is that all nihilists must be atheists, but not all atheists are nihilists.

Hm, that's interesting. What about Chthulhu-worshippers ? Their world technically has a value -- to be eaten by the Great Old One -- but that's not really much of a value. I think they'd technically count as nihilists.

P.S.: Chthulhu ftaghn !

[Cephus]

I think I see your point but that kinda sounds like a deist to me. Also would this God or Gods create the world to have no objective meaning?

Tim, a deist *IS* a theist. Anyone who believes in any form of deity, is a theist.

I guess I feel that a nihilist is a depressed atheist. Or maybe that an atheist can believe that life only has the meaning you give it while a nihilist believes life doesn't and can never have meaning.

Most atheists, at least the ones that I know, think that you have to give meaning to your own life, you have to find your own way, rather than having some sky daddy give it to you. I don't know what's depressed about that kind of thinking, I find it very optimistic.

[Cathar1950]

McCulloch wrote:

I think you are wrong. I can imagine a theist nihilist. He would think that God or the gods, are so far above him that nothing he does or can do would make any difference to them. While some theists accuse atheists of having to be nihilists, I disagree with them.

It sound an awful lot like the American Evangelical Christian to me.
At least their ministers on tv.

Cephus wrote:

Most atheists, at least the ones that I know, think that you have to give meaning to your own life, you have to find your own way, rather than having some sky daddy give it to you. I don't know what's depressed about that kind of thinking, I find it very optimistic.

I find the bible-believer to be depressing.
I was reading Edmund D. Cohen's book The mind of the bible-believer and he makes an interesting point concerning atheist enemies of American such as the USSR. What would have happened if they were believers that thought their enemies we going to hell if they destroyed them? For them this was all there is, so life is important, while we may not hesitate to blow up the world because God will save us and send them to hell.
We maybe in a political situation today, where no one is reasonable or afraid. We may some day long for the good old days when our enemies didn't want to die.