True Christians love abortion

[The Persnickety Platypus]

I cannot comprehend the almost unilateral Christian voice against abortion. Since when has God taken an issue with innocent children?

1Sa 15:3
Now go and attack Amalek. Claim everything they have for God by destroying it. Don't spare them, but kill men and women, infants and children, cows and sheep, camels and donkeys."

Eze 5:17 (God Speaking)
I will send famines and wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children. I will send plagues, violence, and wars to kill you. I, the LORD, have spoken."

Eze 9:6 (God speaking)
Kill old men, young men, old women, young women, and children. But don't come near anyone who has a mark on him. Start with my holy place." So they started with the old men in front of the temple.

Hos 9:16
"The people of Ephraim are like sick plants. Their roots are dried up. They have no fruit. Even if they were to have children, I would kill their dear children."

Exo 4:23
This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son. I told you to let my son go so that he may worship me. But you refused to let him go. So now I'm going to kill your firstborn son.'"

Exo 12:12
"On that same night I will go throughout Egypt and kill every firstborn male, both human and animal. I will severely punish all the gods of Egypt, because I am the LORD.



It's too bad God couldn't have the same decency as his followers when dealing with Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Hivites, and Jebusites. Every young child of these nations was murdered due to the sins of the parents. Relating this to the current situation, the woman requesting an abortion probably engaged in lascivious sexual intercourse, a grave sin. By God's standards, her unborn child needs to be slaughtered.


If this is not the official Biblical doctrine on abortion, pray tell me, just what is?

[juliod]

Good points. I will await the careful explanation of the anti-abortionists.

DanZ

[Paveway]

They are scriptures from the Old Testament, Christians live in the New Testament, and the new testament disagrees with this...i am not sure about the OT.

[palmera]

Paveway wrote

They are scriptures from the Old Testament, Christians live in the New Testament, and the new testament disagrees with this...i am not sure about the OT.

Are you saying that the New Testament disagrees with the Old Testament or that the New Testament disagrees with abortion? If the previous, specifically how so and why? If the latter, where does the New Testament speak of abortion? The only scripture I've found vaguely within that realm comes from Matthew 26:24 :"but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born."

[Paveway]

Please stop trying to side-track me, the Bible altogether does not speak about abortion, its just you people trying to make a faint correlation between Christians adn Abortion.

How? -21"You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Do not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.'-
Mathew 15.

Why? It is a Sin.

Abortion is Murder.
Simple, try telling me why it isn't.

-24.For I, the Son of Man, must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago. But how terrible it will be for my betrayer. Far better for him if he had never been born!"-

Mathew 26.

ANd i would also like to know where all you people are getting your sorces from...like which Bible.

Christians LIVE in the NT.

[juliod]

Abortion is Murder.
Simple, try telling me why it isn't.

Simple. It is never talked about as murder in the bible.

The only passage with a similar reference is:

Exodus 21:22(KJV):
22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

Notice that the man is not treated as if he had committed murder. Notice also that the fetus is refered to as a "fruit".

Also, you will notice in the bible the frequent use of the phrase "breath of life" which is used to indicate that life starts at a live birth.

And again, you will note that when the bible talks about the status of a person before birth, it is always in the context of an immortal soul, which is not harmed by abortion.

Then there is the quotes in the original post, which show that YHWH has not special affinity for children.

And there is:

Ecclesiastes 6(NASB):
3 If a man fathers a hundred children and lives many years, however many they be, but his soul is not satisfied with good things and he does not even have a proper burial, then I say, "Better the miscarriage than he,

4 for it comes in futility and goes into obscurity; and its name is covered in obscurity.

5 "It never sees the sun and it never knows anything; it is better off than he.

An aborted baby is better off ("never knowing anything") than a person who lives a bad life. True, isn't it?

And finally, if that ain't enough, there is Hosea 13, where YHWH himself performs impromptu abortions on the Israelites. Nasty.

Hosea 13(NIV):
16 The people of Samaria must bear their guilt,
because they have rebelled against their God.
They will fall by the sword;
their little ones will be dashed to the ground,
their pregnant women ripped open."

DanZ

[Paveway]

The KJV is the ONLY book i will take referance to, the other Bibles other than the NKJV and (i think) the Holy Bible are misconstrued.


22"Now suppose two people are fighting, and in the process, they hurt a pregnant woman so her child is born prematurely. If no further harm results, then the person responsible must pay damages in the amount the woman's husband demands and the judges approve."
Exodus 21.

Abortion is the process of going to a Hospital and saying "i don't want this baby, kill it".
That is selfish and Murder.
The baby is not in sin, and if the baby dies becasue of prenatal problems God is punishing the parents or ancestral sin.

"3.A man might have a hundred children and live to be very old. But if he finds no satisfaction in life and in the end does not even get a decent burial, I say he would have been better off born dead.

4.I realize that his birth would have been meaningless and ended in darkness. He wouldn't even have had a name,
5.and he would never have seen the sun or known of its existence. Yet he would have had more peace than he has in growing up to be an unhappy man.
6. He might live a thousand years twice over but not find contentment. And since he must die like everyone else--well, what's the use?".
Ecclesiastes 6.

Much better don't you think?

Also when God commands offspring to die, In the OT, he does this because the children will grow to be more sinful than the parents, and they will be out of control, so since only God knows the heart, he knows that the children will NEVER turn to good only bad, now i say KILL THEM.
But you see that is teh OLD testament you find a verse/s like that in the NEW testament.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

Interesting verses, Juliod.

They are scriptures from the Old Testament, Christians live in the New Testament, and the new testament disagrees with this...i am not sure about the OT.

So you agree with Jesus, but dissagree with God?

This is impossible, if I'm not mistaken.

John 1:1-2
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was already with God in the beginning.

.....

John 1:14
The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.

I share your affinity for Jesus and the New Testament (for the most part). However, this is only due to Christ abandoning much of his supposed "fathers" convulted principles.

How? -21"You have heard that the law of Moses says, `Do not murder. If you commit murder, you are subject to judgment.'-
Mathew 15.

Unless you need to mow over an entire civilization to make way for your "chosen" people, of course.

Abortion is Murder.
Simple, try telling me why it isn't.

Then I assume you would fit masterbation under the same category? Every time you have a wet dream you are committing murder? Those poor sperm cells. We must incubate each individual one in labs and grow them into fully functional fetuses, else face God's wrath.

Think about it. A primitive fetus is not much more complex than a sperm cell.

As you can see, what constitutes a human life is very subjective. God on the other hand has a strictly OBJECTIVE perception. Clearly, he objectively did not consider the fetuses inside the pregnant women that he frequently instructed the Isrealites to "rip open" as human beings. Either that, or he is deliberately negating his own laws, in which case you may want to reconsider your religious preferences.

ANd i would also like to know where all you people are getting your sorces from...like which Bible.

A modern translation called "God's Word". Pretty much the same as the NIV.

[The Persnickety Platypus]

The KJV is the ONLY book i will take referance to, the other Bibles other than the NKJV and (i think) the Holy Bible are misconstrued.

Then look up our verses in the KJV. They will say the very same thing.

On another note, I think relying on the NKJV is rather silly. I am certainly not old English, don't know about you. Much of the vocabulary has completely different meanings in the modern setting.

Also when God commands offspring to die, In the OT, he does this because the children will grow to be more sinful than the parents, and they will be out of control, so since only God knows the heart, he knows that the children will NEVER turn to good only bad, now i say KILL THEM.

Then it is certainly a mystery as to why he did not wipe out the Israelites as well. As you recall, every few years they would revert back to false God's and outright debauchery. At one point, God is recorded as saying that they became worse than the nations around them.

Look at all the murderers and rapists of the modern world. It's a pity God could not have wiped them out at conception as well. But then, that would completely negate God's establishment of free will, wouldn't it?

Why do you think God would deny the Canaanites free will, yet grant it to everyone else?

Statistically, most children are doomed to repeat many of the same mistakes as their parents. By your reasoning, this is good cause for allowing a promiscuous woman to abort her child.

[Paveway]

Interesting verses, Juliod.

They are scriptures from the Old Testament, Christians live in the New Testament, and the new testament disagrees with this...i am not sure about the OT.

So you agree with Jesus, but dissagree with God?

This is impossible, if I'm not mistaken.

That was the OLD Testament...in THOSE days it was the APPROPRIATE thing to do, if it was concerning God's decision.
We are in the NEW testament now and some of the concepts in the OT are not, should not, be used/used today, and are disapproven by the new Testament.

John 1:1-2
In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was already with God in the beginning.

.....

John 1:14
The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.

Yes this is true, so?

I share your affinity for Jesus and the New Testament (for the most part). However, this is only due to Christ abandoning much of his supposed "fathers" convulted principles.

look, he didn't abandon Him, he reiterated the Words for the present World, because of its heavy sinning.

The Principles were not convulted, they were appropriate for the time thats all.
And the Humans disobeyed and so God had had enough and sent his only begotten Son to once again save mankind.

Unless you need to mow over an entire civilization to make way for your "chosen" people, of course.

Please show proof of this.

Then I assume you would fit masterbation under the same category? Every time you have a wet dream you are committing murder? Those poor sperm cells. We must incubate each individual one in labs and grow them into fully functional fetuses, else face God's wrath.

Sure they are alive, but they don't have a soul, so killing them is not a Sin.

Think about it. A primitive fetus is not much more complex than a sperm cell.

So?

As you can see, what constitutes a human life is very subjective. God on the other hand has a strictly OBJECTIVE perception. Clearly, he objectively did not consider the fetuses inside the pregnant women that he frequently instructed the Isrealites to "rip open" as human beings.

haha its called literature and poetics, God uses different contexts of words to convey his meaning.

Those people deserved death, they were heavy sinners.

Either that, or he is deliberately negating his own laws, in which case you may want to reconsider your religious preferences.

ANd i would also like to know where all you people are getting your sorces from...like which Bible.

A modern translation called "God's Word". Pretty much the same as the NIV.

But which Bible?

He is not negating, we are in the NEW TESTAMENT, and i consider it HIGHLY INCONSIDERATE FOR YOU TO CONVERT ME TO OTHER BELIEFS.

Also Christianity is not a Religion.