Civil and engaging debate on Christianity and religious issues
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Nick Hallandale
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 Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: Who buried Jesus? |
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Who buried Jesus after his crucifiction?
According to Matthew, Joseph of Arimathea buried Jesus.
Matthew 27:57-60
57When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus.
58This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate ordered it to be given to him.
59And Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth,
60and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn out in the rock; and he rolled a large stone against the entrance of the tomb and went away.
But the Apostle Paul flatly contradicts Matthew and says the Jews and their rulers buried Jesus.
Acts 13:27-29
27"For those who live in Jerusalem, and their rulers, recognizing neither Him nor the utterances of the prophets which are read every Sabbath, fulfilled these by condemning Him.
28"And though they found no ground for putting Him to death, they asked Pilate that He be executed.
29"When they had carried out all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the cross and laid Him in a tomb.
If they can't figure out who buried Jesus, how can they say he was resurrected?
Doesn't this contradiction cast doubt on the "Jesus rose from the dead story"?
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Bibowen Student Joined: 14 Apr 2006 Total posts: 12 Gender: Male
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Post 21:
Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Joseph of Arimathea |
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| Nick Hallandale wrote: |
I don't know who buried Jesus?
I wasn't there.
Since the Bible writers tell conflicting stories, how do I decide who to believe?
The real problem is that Christians say that the Bible is without mistakes.
Obviously this is not true. |
First, since no alternative theory to Joseph has been presented, and since I have suggested that there is no necessary conflict between the burial passages, I will assume that the noncontradictory biblical account that I suggested is the best answer to date.
Second, the main problem is not the inerrancy of the Bible. You could hold the scriptures as noninerrant, but simply as "generally reliable" historical accounts and still believe that Jesus was buried by Joseph. In fact, that is (and has been) the position of some believers.
Third, if the scriptures do have mistakes, it is not obvious from your restating of the burial accounts. As I stated earlier, our everyday use of language evaporates the claim to a necessary contradiction. In fact, the way the burial accounts are stated in the Bible is the way we should expect them to be stated, given our modern tendency to allow for officials to represent the groups of which they are members. |
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| Nick Hallandale Apprentice Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Total posts: 168 Location: Fort Pierce, Fl Age: 68 Gender: Male
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Post 22:
Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Spicy or Extra Crispy?
According to Mark, the women purchased the spices after the Sabbath……..Mark 16:1
“”When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.””
According to Luke, the women purchased the spices before the Sabbath..Luke 23:56
“”Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.””
But according to John, Nicodemus brought the spices to the burial. John 19:39
“”Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight.””
So to recap………
Mark says the women purchased the spices after the Sabbath and on Easter Sunday they brought the spices to the tomb.
Luke says the women purchased the spices before the Sabbath and on Easter Sunday they brought the spices to the tomb.
John says Nicodemus brought the spices to the burial, very very roughly three days before Easter Sunday. The women were at the burial, so if this story was for real, they knew about the 100 LBS of spices that supposedly Nicodemus had brought. Does one suppose that when the women came on Easter Sunday, they were bringing more spices because 100LBS was not quite spicy enough? Does one suppose that the women expected to unwrap the corpse, add some salt and pepper, and then rewrap the corpse?
Of course, I wonder why they bothered to spice the corpse in the first place. The Apostle Paul often quoted Psalm 16:10 and claimed it was about Jesus...
“”For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.””
I wonder if the early Christians expected God to keep Jesus from decay, or were they relying on lots of spices?
This story is so ridiculous I wonder how any reasonable person could believe this fable. |
_________________
Nick Hallandale enterprisestrategy@earthlink.net
If GOD gave us a conscience, doesn''t he expect us to obey?
If GOD expects us to obey, can we expect judgement and reward or punishment? |
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Easyrider
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Post 23:
Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Nick Hallandale wrote: | Spicy or Extra Crispy?
According to Mark, the women purchased the spices after the Sabbath……..Mark 16:1
“”When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.””
According to Luke, the women purchased the spices before the Sabbath..Luke 23:56
“”Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.””
But according to John, Nicodemus brought the spices to the burial. John 19:39
“”Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight.””
So to recap………
Mark says the women purchased the spices after the Sabbath and on Easter Sunday they brought the spices to the tomb.
Luke says the women purchased the spices before the Sabbath and on Easter Sunday they brought the spices to the tomb.
John says Nicodemus brought the spices to the burial, very very roughly three days before Easter Sunday. The women were at the burial, so if this story was for real, they knew about the 100 LBS of spices that supposedly Nicodemus had brought. Does one suppose that when the women came on Easter Sunday, they were bringing more spices because 100LBS was not quite spicy enough? Does one suppose that the women expected to unwrap the corpse, add some salt and pepper, and then rewrap the corpse?
Of course, I wonder why they bothered to spice the corpse in the first place. The Apostle Paul often quoted Psalm 16:10 and claimed it was about Jesus...
“”For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.””
I wonder if the early Christians expected God to keep Jesus from decay, or were they relying on lots of spices?
This story is so ridiculous I wonder how any reasonable person could believe this fable. |
Where's the fable?
Note from the NIV Study Bible on Luke:23:56 - "Seventy five pounds of myrrh and aloes were already used on that first evening (see John 19:39 and note). More was purchased for the return of the women after the Sabbath...."
Very simple. |
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| Nick Hallandale Apprentice Joined: 23 Sep 2005 Total posts: 168 Location: Fort Pierce, Fl Age: 68 Gender: Male
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Post 24:
Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| Easyrider wrote: | | Nick Hallandale wrote: | Spicy or Extra Crispy?
According to Mark, the women purchased the spices after the Sabbath……..Mark 16:1
“”When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.””
According to Luke, the women purchased the spices before the Sabbath..Luke 23:56
“”Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.””
But according to John, Nicodemus brought the spices to the burial. John 19:39
“”Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight.””
So to recap………
Mark says the women purchased the spices after the Sabbath and on Easter Sunday they brought the spices to the tomb.
Luke says the women purchased the spices before the Sabbath and on Easter Sunday they brought the spices to the tomb.
John says Nicodemus brought the spices to the burial, very very roughly three days before Easter Sunday. The women were at the burial, so if this story was for real, they knew about the 100 LBS of spices that supposedly Nicodemus had brought. Does one suppose that when the women came on Easter Sunday, they were bringing more spices because 100LBS was not quite spicy enough? Does one suppose that the women expected to unwrap the corpse, add some salt and pepper, and then rewrap the corpse?
Of course, I wonder why they bothered to spice the corpse in the first place. The Apostle Paul often quoted Psalm 16:10 and claimed it was about Jesus...
“”For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.””
I wonder if the early Christians expected God to keep Jesus from decay, or were they relying on lots of spices?
This story is so ridiculous I wonder how any reasonable person could believe this fable. |
Where's the fable?
Note from the NIV Study Bible on Luke:23:56 - "Seventy five pounds of myrrh and aloes were already used on that first evening (see John 19:39 and note). More was purchased for the return of the women after the Sabbath...."
Very simple. |
Dear Easyrider,
You have chosen to ignore the contradictions I have pointed out.
Read my comments again.
But since I am writing anyway I would like to offer another piece of interesting information.
I have absolutely no knowledge of why they spiced Jesus' body. I am not an expert on Jewish burial practices. But I looked on a Jewish website called askmoses.com for information.
| Quote: | From AskMoses.com
Do Jewish funeral homes embalm the dead?
Jewish law does not allow embalming.
According to Jewish tradition, the body, having contained a G-dly soul, is sacred and should not be tampered with in any way. Instead, we are commanded to return it to its creator as is (and as quickly as possible).
Embalming is a very intrusive process which involves removing and the disposal (!) of the blood and other bodily fluids.
Take note, that the primary reason for embalming is for the body to be presentable at the wake and for the "viewing session" which normally occur several days after death.
Judaism: 1. Doesn’t allow for viewings. As mentioned earlier, the body is sacred and isn't an artifact which we ogle; and 2. We don't wait more than 24 hours before burial (unless there are extenuating circumstances). |
Certainly AskMoses.com is the opinion of mainstream Judaism and they don't use spices. |
_________________
Nick Hallandale enterprisestrategy@earthlink.net
If GOD gave us a conscience, doesn''t he expect us to obey?
If GOD expects us to obey, can we expect judgement and reward or punishment? |
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