Poor Predominantly Catholic Countries

[fonso]

Whenever friends and I discuss matters of politics, and the influence the Roman Catholic Church has had on my country's government, we all can't help but think why it seems that all (correct me if I'm wrong) predominantly Catholic countries in the world are economically troubled.

From Argentina, most, if not all of South America, to the Philippines, to Spain (Italy doesn't count, as billions have been poured into Rome from all over), it seems that this pattern of financial difficulty is manifest in all countries where the Church takes a major role in the government.

In the Philippines, prophylactics, contraceptive pills, and the like, are not condoned by the Church, in addition to encouraging everyone to just "go forth and multiply". Bishops and priests alike keep advocating "responsible family planning", living in their own fairy-tale world that a solution without action will materialize so long as we have faith in God's plan. Sanctioned methods such as the rhythm method and abstinence (yeah, right) are touted as "effective". The results: a whopping 11+% unemployment rate, with millions more not covered by the population census, and a population growth rate of 2.4%, Asia's highest. You'd have to wonder what kind of excuse they'll come up with to blame the government once crime, murder, and robbery overrun the country. In spite of the inevitable population time bomb breathing down our necks, an indecisive, weak, government, is still unable to put their foot down against the Church.

I don't know if the same is happening in other Catholic countries, but if anyone has some knowledge or expertise to share, please do so.

EDIT: I'd like to ask if anyone agrees with this observation among predominantly Catholic countries, or if you think it's just mere coincidence that all of them have underperforming economies. Is it a Catholic religion-induced plague on the country or not?

[perspective]

Welcome, fonso! Interesting topic. I'd like to keep this thread open, because of the interesting implications, but you'll need to get in it compliance with the rules. To do that you need to specify a question for debate. If you would rather not debate, I'll put this in the Discussion area of the furm.

[fonso]

Ok sorry I forgot to ask my question!

It's up there now.

[otseng]

Based on the top 10 poorest countries in the world, there is no convincing correlation between the Roman Catholic Church and a nation being poor.

1. Sierra Leone
60% Muslim, indigenous beliefs 30%, Christian 10%

2. Tanzania
Muslim 35%, Indigenous beliefs 35%, Christian 30%,

3. Ethiopia
Muslim 45%-50%, Ethiopian Orthodox 35%-40%

4. Cambodia
Buddhist 95%

5. Congo, Democratic Republic of the
Roman Catholic 50%, Protestant 20%, Kimbanguist 10%, Muslim 10%

7. Rwanda
Roman Catholic 56.5%, Protestant 26%, Adventist 11.1%, Muslim 4.6%

8. Comoros
Sunni Muslim 98%

9. Burundi
Roman Catholic 62%, indigenous beliefs 23%, Protestant 5%

10. Eritrea
Muslim, Coptic Christian, Roman Catholic, Protestant

10. Yemen
Muslim including Shaf'i (Sunni) and Zaydi (Shi'a), small numbers of Jewish, Christian, and Hindu

[otseng]

Upon further research of the top 10 richest countries, there is more of a correlation between Roman Catholicism and a nation being rich.

1. Luxembourg
87% Roman Catholic, 13% Protestants,

2. United States
Protestant 56%, Roman Catholic 28%, Jewish 2%

3. Bermuda
non-Anglican Protestant 39%, Anglican 27%, Roman Catholic 15%

4. San Marino
Roman Catholic

5. Switzerland
Roman Catholic

6. Aruba
Roman Catholic 82%, Protestant 8%

7. Norway
Evangelical Lutheran 86% (state church), other Protestant and Roman Catholic 3%

8. Monaco
Roman Catholic 90%

9. Singapore
Buddhist (Chinese), Muslim (Malays), Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Taoist, Confucianist

10. Denmark
Evangelical Lutheran 95%, other Protestant and Roman Catholic 3%, Muslim 2%

[Corvus]

Countries being rich has very little to do with religion unless we are talking about a country of luddites. It has far more to do with the industrial revolution and spread of industrialisation.

As an interesting aside, the French novelists, the Goncourt Brothers wrote in their journals in 1861 that...

I sometimes think the day will come when all modern nations will adore a sort of American god, a god who will have been a man that lived on earth and about whom much will have been written in the popular press; and images of this god will be set up in the churches, not as the imagination of each individual painter may fancy him, not floating on a Veronica kerchief, but established, fixed once and for all by photography. Yes, I forsee a photographed god, wearing spectacles.
On that day civilisation will have reached its peak and there will be steam-propelled gondolas in Venice.

[ST88]

Based on the top 10 poorest countries in the world, there is no convincing correlation between the Roman Catholic Church and a nation being poor.

Upon further research of the top 10 richest countries, there is more of a correlation between Roman Catholicism and a nation being rich.

This is a misuse of statistics. The ends of the spectrum (poorest/richest) do not prove this hypothesis either way. In fact, these are outliers to the distribution of data that tend to show the exceptions -- those countries that do not have valid correllizable (?) data for either disproof or support.

It would be necessary to take either a random sample of all Catholic countries and all non-Catholic countries and compare the aggregate amounts or else use the entire known population of individual states. This may not prove anything either, but it would at least be a valid statistical method.

[otseng]

This is a misuse of statistics. The ends of the spectrum (poorest/richest) do not prove this hypothesis either way. In fact, these are outliers to the distribution of data that tend to show the exceptions -- those countries that do not have valid correllizable (?) data for either disproof or support.

Granted, it is a sampling. But, it is a reasonable determination of the validity of the statement. If it is not a reasonable argument, then what would you accept as a reasonable argument?

Also, no evidence has been presented so far to even back up the claim that there is a correlation between Roman Catholicism and poor countries. It is simply conjecture if there is no evidence to back it up.

[ST88]

This is a misuse of statistics. The ends of the spectrum (poorest/richest) do not prove this hypothesis either way. In fact, these are outliers to the distribution of data that tend to show the exceptions -- those countries that do not have valid correllizable (?) data for either disproof or support.

Granted, it is a sampling. But, it is a reasonable determination of the validity of the statement. If it is not a reasonable argument, then what would you accept as a reasonable argument?

Also, no evidence has been presented so far to even back up the claim that there is a correlation between Roman Catholicism and poor countries. It is simply conjecture if there is no evidence to back it up.

All right. All right. I had to open my big mouth.

Based on my calculations, there are 53 nations of the world that are predominantly Roman Catholic and/or have a Roman Catholic State government. I have limited this to nations for which there is coherent and available data (2002).

Using a simple aggregate average, by comparing RC countries against non-RC of the world yields these unofficial and decidedly unscientific figures from 2002:

Average RC GDP: $10,871
Average NON- RC GDP: $6,489.69
Average Christian (Protestant, Orthodox, etc.), non-RC GDP: $9,264

Average Islam GDP: $4,747
Average Hindu/Buddhist GDP $5,672

Literacy Rates:
Roman Catholic - 86%
Non-Roman Catholic - 74%
Christian, Non-RC - 89%

Number of offspring per adult female:

Roman Catholic - 4.5
Non-Roman Catholic - 2.5
Christian, Non-RC - 2.5

Conclusion? Based on this set of vaguely statistical numbers, there is no statistical difference between the GDPs of Roman Catholic countries and the GDPs of Christian, non-Roman Catholic countries.

Here is the data that I used for these figures, if you're curious:
http://www.mrdowling.com/800gdp.html
http://www.usconstitution.net/nations.html

[otseng]

I would agree that your analysis is more thorough.

And your results are quite interesting. Not knowing what the statistical error is, I would tend to conclude from your numbers that RC and Christian countries are richer than Muslim and Hindu/Buddhist countries.

I wouldn't say from this analysis that RC/Christianity causes a nation to be rich, but there seems to be a correlation between the two.