Spirits must be a product of the universe if they can exist in it.
They are even physically compatible to humanity.
Genesis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Numbers 13:33
We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.�
Spirit is universe compatible.
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- ttruscott
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Re: Spirit is universe compatible.
Post #2The physical universe must have been created to fit humankind because we exist in it.postroad wrote: Spirits must be a product of the universe if they can exist in it.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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Re: Spirit is universe compatible.
Post #3[Replying to post 2 by ttruscott]
Or, humankind and other life forms exist within this physical universe (and planet Earth in particular) because the physical environment was conducive to the evolution of such life forms. The universe was here long before planet Earth or any of its life forms existed, and humankind is only a very recent addition that appeared during the last roughly 0.007% of Earth's existence.
The physical universe must have been created to fit humankind because we exist in it.
Or, humankind and other life forms exist within this physical universe (and planet Earth in particular) because the physical environment was conducive to the evolution of such life forms. The universe was here long before planet Earth or any of its life forms existed, and humankind is only a very recent addition that appeared during the last roughly 0.007% of Earth's existence.
In human affairs the sources of success are ever to be found in the fountains of quick resolve and swift stroke; and it seems to be a law, inflexible and inexorable, that he who will not risk cannot win.
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
John Paul Jones, 1779
The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read.
Mark Twain
Re: Spirit is universe compatible.
Post #4[Replying to post 2 by ttruscott]
The Bible indicates that God alone is uncreated. Spirits are created substance.
The Bible indicates that God alone is uncreated. Spirits are created substance.
- ttruscott
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Re: Spirit is universe compatible.
Post #6Why do you think my phrasing indicates I think we were not created? I just think we were created before the physical universe and when the time came to sequester all sinners from the polite society of heaven and to provide a rehab hospital for the sinful elect, the universe, particularly the earth, was created IN RESPONSE TO THE NEEDS OF HIS SINFUL ELECT and the choices of all sinners, ergo, the universe fits us, we do not fit it.postroad wrote: [Replying to post 2 by ttruscott]
The Bible indicates that God alone is uncreated. Spirits are created substance.
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
- Diagoras
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Re: Spirit is universe compatible.
Post #7That’s a rather unusual idea – certainly one I’ve never heard of. Several questions spring to mind:ttruscott wrote:I just think we were created before the physical universe and when the time came to sequester all sinners from the polite society of heaven and to provide a rehab hospital for the sinful elect, the universe, particularly the earth, was created IN RESPONSE TO THE NEEDS OF HIS SINFUL ELECT and the choices of all sinners, ergo, the universe fits us, we do not fit it.
‘Before’ the physical universe isn’t a concept generally accepted by the scientific community. Space and time are simply different aspects of a combined ‘spacetime’, so without a ‘space’ for the universe, there’s no ‘time’ for it either. Why do you think differently?
Who is the ‘we’ being created, here? A small number of spirits? Everyone who has ever lived and will live in the future?
A biggie - how does this ‘polite society of heaven’ fit in with the story of Genesis?
If we were created as ‘spirit’ in some non-physical realm (I can’t say ‘universe’ as that means the physical realm implicitly), then what would cause sin? What could there be to be sinful about? It’s not as if there’s going to be anything to steal or envy, and I would have thought murder would be a meaningless concept for non-physical beings. And what’s the ‘sinful elect’? I know what a President-elect is. Does that mean some people were chosen to become sinful in the future?
When you say ‘particularly the earth’, doesn’t it strike you as odd that God would create the universe in response to the sinful-elect, then wait over nine billion years before creating Earth? Add another four-plus billion years before creating recognisable physical human forms to put these sinful spirits in. I mean, what’s the point? If you’re God, and you’ve started off with ‘pure spirits’, then it would make more sense to just section off one part of heaven for the sinful-elect straight away, wouldn’t it?
I could go on, but hopefully my point is clear enough for the general reader: have you really thought this through properly? Do you have any evidence at all for this idea that’s outside of a certain book that can be interpreted in wildly different ways (and yet held as the literal truth at other times)?
What you describe is simply a fiction.