Debates on Christianity, Creation vs Evolution, Philosophy, Politics and Religion, Ethics, Current Events, and Religious issues
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McCulloch
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 Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:30 pm Post subject: Messianic Prophesies |
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Do Messianic Prophesies prove that Jesus was the Messiah?
There are a significant number of prophesies in the Jewish holy writings which predict certain things about the messiah. Early Christian writers have made the claim that Jesus fulfilled those prophesies. To these facts most will agree.
Explanations for this seem to fall into two categories:- God inspired the writers of the prophesies by his own foreknowledge and his own will as to what would happen. Jesus, the Son of God, then fulfilled those prophesies on earth as the Messiah.
- The writers of the New Testament, who were quite familiar with Jewish messianic literature, writing some years after the life of Jesus, in an attempt (successful as it turns out) to give credibility and legitimacy to their new religion, made sure that they made up many examples of events that fulfilled prophesy.
Which of these hypotheses best explain the facts? What are the testable predictions from each of theses hypotheses? Do the facts agree better with one over the other?
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Cathar1950  Site SupporterSavant
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Total posts: 9623 Location: Michigan(616) Age: 59 Gender: Male
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Post 61:
Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| There were many sects and diverse interpretations in second temple Judaism. The Essenes used and allegorical method of reading the Hebrew writings. So Matthew was using only one of many ways Jews and Rabbis Were looking at the OT. He also used some pagan ideas as he tried to reshape Mark's story and create a New Moses for the fledgling Christians in Diaspora. If Jesus fulfilled any Prophesies it was because the used the OT to create the fiction of his life and ministry as an apologetic in the form of Greek hero stories followers/disciples and all. Luke did he rewrite of mark too. The gospels can't even get the disciples straight. Then we can see where gospel was changed to agree with gospel. As other ideas came in conflict changes were made to fight the proto-orthodox Christian competitions. The Dead Sea Scrolls show the use of Allegory when they read the scriptures and attributed passages to their Teacher of Righteousness. There is not much unique about the Christian’s use of scripture except its modern day misinterpretations asserted as historical facts. |
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| Metacrock Guru
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Total posts: 1143 Location: Dallas Age: 54 Gender: Male
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Post 62:
Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Cathar1950 wrote: | | There were many sects and diverse interpretations in second temple Judaism. The Essenes used and allegorical method of reading the Hebrew writings. |
True but it doesn't invlaidate my argument. WE can't dismiss Mat as stupid or unjewish just because we can't see how he comes some fo the conclusions to which he comes.
| Quote: | | So Matthew was using only one of many ways Jews and Rabbis Were looking at the OT. He also used some pagan ideas as he tried to reshape Mark's story and create a New Moses for the fledgling Christians in Diaspora. |
Most second temple Jews has some pagan ideas. The idea of hell and of heaven as a reward for the faithful came form paganism.
| Quote: | | If Jesus fulfilled any Prophesies it was because the used the OT to create the fiction of his life and ministry as an apologetic in the form of Greek hero stories followers/disciples and all. |
Jesus doesn't fit any Greek hero stories. Most of those were totally uninfluential in Palestine and all that Jesus fits is in the OT. Mat is very Essene in his understanding, not a much as John however, The Mat community probalby has early Pharisaeical converts.
| Quote: | | Luke did he rewrite of mark too. The gospels can't even get the disciples straight. |
redaction is not a re-write. That's way over simplsitic.
| Quote: | | Then we can see where gospel was changed to agree with gospel. As other ideas came in conflict changes were made to fight the proto-orthodox Christian competitions. The Dead Sea Scrolls show the use of Allegory when they read the scriptures and attributed passages to their Teacher of Righteousness. There is not much unique about the Christian’s use of scripture except its modern day misinterpretations asserted as historical facts. |
I believe the core group of the infant chruch were Essnes. I believe Jesus famiily itself was the leadership fo the Essene movement. They may not have had acutal ties to Qumran but they were clealry in the think of the overall cultural movement to spawned Qumran. |
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