"Slavery" in the Bible

[POI]

Allow us readers to be very careful. We must make sure we identify the proper context here, to assure against hasty and/or self-serving conclusions.

Exodus 21:2-3:

"2 “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything. 3 If he comes alone, he is to go free alone; but if he has a wife when he comes, she is to go with him." <-- Okay, this seems clear enough, if you are a purchased Hebrew, with a wife, you are both to go free in year 7.

Exodus 21:4:

"4 If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the woman and her children shall belong to her master, and only the man shall go free." <-- Here is where things start to look sketchy for the modern-day believer. If the slave is provided with a wife, and they have kids, the wife and kids are to stay with the slave master. They are not to go free.

Exodus 21:5-6:

"5 “But if the servant declares, ‘I love my master and my wife and children and do not want to go free,’ 6 then his master must take him before the judges.[a] He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life." <-- More uncomfortability for the Christian here. Without getting into the weeds, common sense suggests a special rule is made to trick the male Hebrew into remaining a slave for life.

Leviticus 25:44-46:

"44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly." <-- More awkwardness for the believer, as the Bible reader clammers to find a rationale to make this passage not read the way it does.

Here is a basic definition of chattel slavery --> "Chattel slavery is full slavery in its traditional form whereby slaves are the complete property of their master, can be bought and sold by him and treated in any way that he wishes, which may include torture and other brutality, excessively bad working conditions, and sexual exploitation"

Looks like all the ingredients fit the given Bible description here, minus the torture. Wait a minute, this is covered in the rest of Exodus 21. (i.e.):

"20 “Anyone who beats their male or female slave with a rod must be punished if the slave dies as a direct result, 21 but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property." <-- So basically, since the slave is your property, beatings with impunity are acceptable. Just don't kill them.

For debate:

By applying common sense, does/did the Bible ever, and/or currently still sanction chattel slavery?

Again, by using common sense, can a believer effectively use the Bible in support of breeding chattel slaves?

************************

Before you answer, consider this.... Since the NT does not mention the abolition of 'slavery', and yet the Bible makes further proclamation(s) and/or addendums (in favor of retaining 'slavery',) this means the Bible is not against chattel slavery either. Further, the Christian may want to introduce the importance of the 'golden rule'. However, the specifics outweigh the generals. The specifics of the rules for engagement of slavery are outside the 'golden rule'. Otherwise, the Bible would be a one-pager. 'Slavery' is an expressed exception to the general rule. Thus, anytime a specific scenario is not invoked, yes, 'golden rule.'

[POI]

We can tolerate a less than idéal situation without it compromising ones morals.

What your response suggests, is that you have to reconcile that the Bible....

....sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

(and)

....can effectively be used to support the breeding of new lifetime chattel slaves.

[JehovahsWitness]

We can tolerate a less than idéal situation without it compromising ones morals.

....both the old and new testaments actually condone slavery, that is compromising ones morals.

Not necessarily: Not all slavery is wrong or abusive. The Hebrew slave system was a relatively positive and beneficial for all parties ; it was part of the Law which was of divine origin and entirely moral ( although the need for it in the first place was less than ideal).

That humans choose to ignore the divine (and universal) mandate to treat others as one would wish to be treated does not compromise the faultless morals of their Creator who issues the Law and He will hold all who ignore his standards accountabke for their actions one day.

Slavey as imposed by pagan nations such as the Romans in Jesus day was not of divine origin but the God of the bible tolerate its existence without intervention. All abuse and unloving behaviour is firmly condemned in the bible so this would cover the treatment of slaves under all systems by all the national groups regardless of the historical period

[terrydactyl]

....both the old and new testaments actually condone slavery, that is compromising ones morals.

Not necessarily: Not all slavery is wrong or abusive. The Hebrew slave system was a relatively positive and beneficial for all parties ; it was part of the Law which was of divine origin and entirely moral ( although the need for it in the first place was less than ideal).

That humans choose to ignore the divine (and universal) mandate to treat others as one would wish to be treated does not compromise the faultless morals of their Creator who issues the Law and He will hold all who ignore his standards accountabke for their actions one day.

Slavey as imposed by pagan nations such as the Romans in Jesus day was not of divine origin but the God of the bible tolerate its existence without intervention. All abuse and unloving behaviour is firmly condemned in the bible so this would cover the treatment of slaves under all systems by all the national groups regardless of the historical period

There are so many flaws in your logic it's hard to know where to start. But I'll cut to the heart of it. Your quote:

"That humans choose to ignore the divine (and universal) mandate to treat others as one would wish to be treated does not compromise the faultless morals of their Creator who issues the Law"

It is safe to say no one would want to be a slave for life. Yet this creator's law condones it. Therefore violating your "mandate to treat others as one would wish to be treated."

It should be obvious your logic is fatally flawed.

[1213]

Placing this topic back on top.... I do not see where any Christian(s) has yet to debunk my two given debating points (i.e.):

- The Bible sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

- A believer can effectively use the Bible in support of breeding new lifetime chattel slaves.

The second highest commandment in the Bible is to love others as oneself. I think that limits the right so that you can't force anyone to be a slave against their will. So, I think you could only say, one can use Bible to support the idea of keeping voluntary slaves.

[TRANSPONDER]

Placing this topic back on top.... I do not see where any Christian(s) has yet to debunk my two given debating points (i.e.):

- The Bible sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

- A believer can effectively use the Bible in support of breeding new lifetime chattel slaves.

The second highest commandment in the Bible is to love others as oneself. I think that limits the right so that you can't force anyone to be a slave against their will. So, I think you could only say, one can use Bible to support the idea of keeping voluntary slaves.

One can only say a lot more, e.g that 'love'for others can be thrown out of the window when it suits God and His People. Drowned, exterminated, blighted, conquered. Loving others is fine, but can be set aside as soon as inconvenient. The Bible says. It says. Foreign slaves can be bought and owned for life, and bequeathed as property to children. This is not voluntary. This is lifetime chattel slavery without rights or freedom.

We all know the Believers are in denial over this. They deny what the Bible implies with a bit of reasoning, and also what it actually says.Prayer answered guaranteed, Slavery of foreigners ok. Jesus to come back in their lifetimes.

All that has to be re - written to say something other than what it actually says.

[POI]

Placing this topic back on top.... I do not see where any Christian(s) has yet to debunk my two given debating points (i.e.):

- The Bible sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

- A believer can effectively use the Bible in support of breeding new lifetime chattel slaves.

The second highest commandment in the Bible is to love others as oneself. I think that limits the right so that you can't force anyone to be a slave against their will. So, I think you could only say, one can use Bible to support the idea of keeping voluntary slaves.

You and I have gone in circles about this more than once. Please read the bottom of the original post. Further, the Bible makes two distinctive categories: 1) temporary servants and 2) lifetime chattel slaves. The Bible sanctions both categories. In certain cases, children produced in bondage are not to go free.

[terrydactyl]

Placing this topic back on top.... I do not see where any Christian(s) has yet to debunk my two given debating points (i.e.):

- The Bible sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

- A believer can effectively use the Bible in support of breeding new lifetime chattel slaves.

The second highest commandment in the Bible is to love others as oneself. I think that limits the right so that you can't force anyone to be a slave against their will. So, I think you could only say, one can use Bible to support the idea of keeping voluntary slaves.

I can't figure out if you are being facetious, as voluntary slavery for life is an oxymoron. What? If the slave decide he doesn't was to be a slave anymore the master can be like, 'Sorry, you volunteered for life.'

[TRANSPONDER]

Placing this topic back on top.... I do not see where any Christian(s) has yet to debunk my two given debating points (i.e.):

- The Bible sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

- A believer can effectively use the Bible in support of breeding new lifetime chattel slaves.

The second highest commandment in the Bible is to love others as oneself. I think that limits the right so that you can't force anyone to be a slave against their will. So, I think you could only say, one can use Bible to support the idea of keeping voluntary slaves.

I can't figure out if you are being facetious, as voluntary slavery for life is an oxymoron. What? If the slave decide he doesn't was to be a slave anymore the master can be like, 'Sorry, you volunteered for life.'

Even what appears to relate to Hebrew servants (voluntary servitude some might call it) if the master provides his indentured servant with a wife. When he leaves she stays, and the kids. The servant can opt to stay and then he's a slave For Life. This is 'Voluntary' of course, but I can imagine it is tempting for a slave owner to use it as a way of coercing the servant to stay.

[POI]

Placing this topic back on top.... I do not see where any Christian(s) has yet to debunk my two given debating points (i.e.):

- The Bible sanctions lifetime chattel slavery.

- A believer can effectively use the Bible in support of breeding new lifetime chattel slaves.

The second highest commandment in the Bible is to love others as oneself. I think that limits the right so that you can't force anyone to be a slave against their will. So, I think you could only say, one can use Bible to support the idea of keeping voluntary slaves.

I can't figure out if you are being facetious, as voluntary slavery for life is an oxymoron. What? If the slave decide he doesn't was to be a slave anymore the master can be like, 'Sorry, you volunteered for life.'

I suggest, if you have some down-time, to grab some popcorn, and sift through all of the Christian responses, up to this point. You will read through quite a bit of mental gymnastics.

[JehovahsWitness]

It is safe to say no one would want to be a slave for life.

No its not! I myself am more than happy to be a slave of God and would wish it no other way.

This illustrates that the owner and the terms and conditions are what influence whether one wants to be a slave or not. Indeed there was a clause in the Hebrew system that allowed for those that voluntarilynchose slavedom over freedom.

That having been said, the need for Slavey to another human is a lamentable thing but lamentable conditions ultimately lie at the feet of humans who have and continue to ignore Gods standards.



JW