When was Heaven created?

[Diagoras]

The concept of heaven doesnt really feature in the Old Testament. The closest thing is Sheol (or Hades in the Greek) which is supposedly a dark resting place under the earth.

After death, whether good or wicked, everyone goes there to rest until some future resurrection.

By the time of the New Testament, heaven is described differently. See John 14:2 for example.

So, when did God create heaven? Does Sheol still exist as a halfway house as well?

[1213]

So, when did God create heaven?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
Gen. 1:1

[historia]

So, when did God create heaven?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
Gen. 1:1

This is the 'traditional' rendering. But that is largely based on how the Septuagint (LXX), the Greek translation of the Old Testament, renders this verse.

The Hebrew is less amenable to this translation. I think most scholars today recognize that it should be translated as it is in the most recent Jewish Publication Society (JPS 2006) translation:

"When God began to create heaven and earth -- the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water -- God said, 'Let there be light'; and there was light."

The NRSVUE renders it similarly.

In other words, these opening verses in Genesis are not saying that God created the heavens and the earth "in the beginning." But, rather, they are describing the state of things when God began to bara (create). This "When . . . then" formulation follows the pattern we see in other Near Eastern creation accounts.

[Diagoras]

Thanks, both of you.

Careful translation and interpretation is likely to feature in this thread (I hope), since I am interested in exploring both the concept of a heaven (or heavens) being the domicile of God, angels and resurrected souls and the simpler idea of the skies.

Also, Genesis 1:6-9 talks about the firmament, which is the celestial dome and where we see the Sun, Moon and stars. And in the KJV, it says God called this Heaven - singular and capitalised.

I should have put forward the claim that the mention of heaven in Genesis refers to the sky, not the angelic residence, in the OP.

Can much be discerned from Heaven singular, capitalised and heavens plural, uncapitalised? That seems to me to be a possible starting point.

Disclaimer: I most frequently post in the Science forum, and would describe myself as an atheist. But this thread is a genuine attempt to understand a part of the Christian belief. Im not trying to trap anyone or poke fun at ideas, so for the purpose of this thread, I will not deny the existence of a celestial heaven.

I do, therefore, welcome the thoughts of those with greater scholarly knowledge than me here. Ill definitely have more questions than answers, though.

[1213]

So, when did God create heaven?

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
Gen. 1:1

This is the 'traditional' rendering. But that is largely based on how the Septuagint (LXX), the Greek translation of the Old Testament, renders this verse.

The Hebrew is less amenable to this translation. I think most scholars today recognize that it should be translated as it is in the most recent Jewish Publication Society (JPS 2006) translation:

"When God began to create heaven and earth -- the earth being unformed and void, with darkness over the surface of the deep and a wind from God sweeping over the water -- God said, 'Let there be light'; and there was light."

The NRSVUE renders it similarly.

In other words, these opening verses in Genesis are not saying that God created the heavens and the earth "in the beginning." But, rather, they are describing the state of things when God began to bara (create). This "When . . . then" formulation follows the pattern we see in other Near Eastern creation accounts.

Interesting, I think essentially they are the same, only the formulation is different. And in both God creates heaven.

[The Tanager]

The concept of heaven doesnt really feature in the Old Testament. The closest thing is Sheol (or Hades in the Greek) which is supposedly a dark resting place under the earth.

After death, whether good or wicked, everyone goes there to rest until some future resurrection.

By the time of the New Testament, heaven is described differently. See John 14:2 for example.

So, when did God create heaven? Does Sheol still exist as a halfway house as well?

Good question. I actually think what many Christians think of heaven (as a future dwelling place God will take us to when we die) could be a misunderstanding of the New Testament. I actually think that the picture in the Old Testament that comes forward into the New Testament is that God has always been working to bring heaven (a type of life) onto Earth through partnering with humans to where heaven is the transformation of our life here that will then extend into eternity.

[JehovahsWitness]

... I actually think that the picture in the Old Testament that comes forward into the New Testament is that God has always been working to bring heaven (a type of life) onto Earth through partnering with humans to where heaven is the transformation of our life here that will then extend into eternity.

So are you saying you don't think it is accurate to think of God as being an individual that is in heaven as opposed to being on earth? And that Jesus (when he was on earth) was not at that time with God in heaven?

[The Tanager]

So are you saying you don't think it is accurate to think of God as being an individual that is in heaven as opposed to being on earth? And that Jesus (when he was on earth) was not at that time with God in heaven?

Correct, I do not think heaven is a separate physical space.

[JehovahsWitness]

So are you saying you don't think it is accurate to think of God as being an individual that is in heaven as opposed to being on earth? And that Jesus (when he was on earth) was not at that time with God in heaven?

Correct, I do not think heaven is a separate physical space.

hmm... well heaven is not generally considered a "physical" anything but if you feel that Jesus was in heaven while being on earth and that when he said he was going to the father he was simply staying on earth (since the Father was on earth with him) , do you think this idea is supported with scripture?

[A Freeman]

God's very first creation was Prince Michael/Christ.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify Thou me with Thine Own self with the glory which I had with Thee BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.

Everything else and everyone else Father created through/by Prince Michael/Christ for Prince Michael/Christ.

Colossians 1:12-16
1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, Which hath made us meet to be sharers of the inheritance of the holy people in Light:
1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into The Kingdom of His dear Son:
1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1:16 For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in Earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for him:

Hebrews 1:1-6
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son, this day have I begotten (created) thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to Me a Son?
1:6 And again, when He bringeth in the firstbegotten (first-created) into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the community of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness (Rev.1:5), the beginning of the creation of God;

This is how Father taught Prince Michael/Christ everything.

John 5:19-20
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.