The Uselessness of Prayer

[Lotan]

And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matt. 21:22

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. James 5:15

Q. Is prayer a waste of time?

A. Prayer is an ineffective superstitious behavior, and the Bible's claims regarding it are false.

[Cephus]

Of course it's a waste of time, just like talking to any invisible friend is a waste of time. Was that ever in doubt?

[Lotan]

Of course it's a waste of time, just like talking to any invisible friend is a waste of time. Was that ever in doubt?

Hi Cephus,

For the sake of argument (this is a debate site ) I would have to say that telling your problems to an imaginary friend isn't nearly as bad as expecting him to solve them for you!
Most of the Bible's claims are safely tucked away in the past, the future, after death, in a person's 'heart', or in some heavenly realm but prayer is supposed to work in the here and now, so it's testable and...Surprise!...it's complete bunk.
Even theists know this is true. That's why they're not exactly tripping over one another to defend it.


Here's a nice movie on the subject...

The best optical illusion in the world!



Correction - In the OP, the verse...

And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matt. 21:22

...should have read...

And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Matt. 21:22

[WelshBoy]

I have to say that when I stopped believing, it was this issue that really got me thinking.

I would often pray for a good meeting with my boss, sometimes when I did pray I had a good meeting and was greatful to God, but other times I had a bad meeting and was filled with disappointment. Conversely I had good and bad meetings with my boss when I didn't pray. It FINALLY clicked that sh*t happens, and that a good or bad meeting was dependent on a million other factors and not related to God's desires for me. Was my boss in a good or bad mood, had he quarelled with his wife, was he stressed. Had I prepared well enough for the meeting etc.

It is often said that God helps those who help themselves. How true that is!

The dear Christians and other religious rationalize their hearts off to explain God's inconsistency - it breaks my heart, though I sympathise, since it was nice to imagine you had an all powerful friend to look after you in times of trouble.

Over Christmas around my parent's dinner table, they said grace, and for the first time I found the situation hilarious....who were they talking to!? I smiled for the whole meal, although it fills me with compassion too.

[The Happy Humanist]

I wonder if any of you have explored the site,
Why Won't God Heal Amputees? Just another nail in the coffin...but a very heavy, sharp nail.

[Confused]

Lotan:

And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. James 5:15

This is also know as death. Prayer didn't cure, the person still died and was risen up to heaven by the Lord. This implies that the cure to the illness is death.

[Lotan]

This is also know as death. Prayer didn't cure, the person still died and was risen up to heaven by the Lord. This implies that the cure to the illness is death.

Hi Confused,
I don't see it. At least not in this verse. Here it is in context...

Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. James 5:13 - 16

The phrases "...make the sick person well..." and "...you may be healed." don't sound like 'death' to me. Besides, why would someone pray that someone else would die? The following verses show how prayer is supposed to work...

Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. James 5: 17 - 18

See? Elijah was a man, he prayed earnestly (ie. had 'faith'), and was able to control nature. Why don't Christians do that today?

[Confused]

This is also know as death. Prayer didn't cure, the person still died and was risen up to heaven by the Lord. This implies that the cure to the illness is death.

Hi Confused,
I don't see it. At least not in this verse. Here it is in context...

Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise. Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. James 5:13 - 16

The phrases "...make the sick person well..." and "...you may be healed." don't sound like 'death' to me. Besides, why would someone pray that someone else would die? The following verses show how prayer is supposed to work...

Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops. James 5: 17 - 18

See? Elijah was a man, he prayed earnestly (ie. had 'faith'), and was able to control nature. Why don't Christians do that today?

I still see it.

Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.[/i] James 5:13 - 16

If the prayer made the sick person well, the Lord has no reason to raise him up and forgive his sins. If the Lord is raising you up (I see up as heaven) and forgiving your sins, you are dead.

And why is it always a "HE". Why can't it "the Lord will raise HER up and if SHE has sinned, SHE will be forgiven. The prayer of a rightesous WOMAN is powerful and effective.

[Lotan]

If the prayer made the sick person well, the Lord has no reason to raise him up and forgive his sins. If the Lord is raising you up (I see up as heaven) and forgiving your sins, you are dead.

OK, I see it, but I don't buy it.
First of all, the prayer doesn't make the sick person well, God does (so the story goes). The prayer is just the means of asking God to do that. Also, Jesus forgives sins all the time (so the story goes) not just when people die. The belief back in the day was that illness was an expression of sin and that forgiveness of sins was the same as healing. Consider Mark 2...

1A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2So many gathered that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3Some men came, bringing to him a paralytic, carried by four of them. 4Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus and, after digging through it, lowered the mat the paralyzed man was lying on. 5When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Son, your sins are forgiven."
6Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7"Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"

8Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, "Why are you thinking these things? 9Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up, take your mat and walk'? 10But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins . . . ." He said to the paralytic, 11"I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home." 12He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, "We have never seen anything like this!"
(Incidentally, when the men who damaged the roof apologized to Jesus he told them "Don't worry about it. My dad's a carpenter!")

This leaves us with 'death' based on an interpretation of the phrase "raise him up" which isn't explicitly defined or necessary to the context.

And why is it always a "HE". Why can't it "the Lord will raise HER up and if SHE has sinned, SHE will be forgiven. The prayer of a rightesous WOMAN is powerful and effective.

You don't suppose the Bible authors were misogynists do you? Anyway, there are examples of women demonstrating their faith, praying, and being healed. We just never see that today.

[Confused]

If the prayer made the sick person well, the Lord has no reason to raise him up and forgive his sins. If the Lord is raising you up (I see up as heaven) and forgiving your sins, you are dead.

OK, I see it, but I don't buy it.

And why is it always a "HE". Why can't it "the Lord will raise HER up and if SHE has sinned, SHE will be forgiven. The prayer of a rightesous WOMAN is powerful and effective.

You don't suppose the Bible authors were misogynists do you? Anyway, there are examples of women demonstrating their faith, praying, and being healed. We just never see that today.

You don't have to buy it. Only see it LOL. You have me rolling on the floor in laughter.