Criteria for salvation; what must we do?

[achilles12604]

I have researched this myself and created a similar post in the holy huddle room. But I open it up for general discussion.

1) What exactly must be done to be saved?

2) What is the criteria used by God to determine judgement?

3) Who will be saved?

4) Who will NOT be saved?

[McCulloch]

The OP has asked a question that has gone on for nine pages. Clearly, God did not make clear what He wants us to do to be 'saved'. I find it interesting that even Christians cannot agree what exactly must be done to be saved. the 20.000 or so Christian denominations cannot agree. So, most of us are pretty much screwed if we pick the wrong one. Oops. Eternal Damnation caused by confusion. I wonder if God will hold that against us wrong-church-pickers.

To be fair, many of these denominations view the members of other denominations as, at worst, erring brethren. Saved but without the best possible teachings or practices on certain issues.

[Ilias Ahmad]

1) What exactly must be done to be saved?

It is very simple. To be "saved" you have to believe in La illaha ila Allah "There is none worthy of worship except Allah" and act upon this belief. The most fundamental call of all the prophets, and the most fundamental message of all the holy scriptures, is to worship One God who is Allah and leave off the worship of all other false gods and idols. This is called Tawheed and it has three categories:

1. Tawheed Rububiyyah (The Oneness of Allah in His Lordship)
-This means that Allah is One in creating and sustaining the entire cosmos and all creation. This is not the focus of Islam, because in reality virtually every other religious creed also believes in this. Jews, Christians, even Hindus believe that no one shares with "Ha Shem" or "Ishwar" in creating the universe.

2. Tawheed Uluhiyyah (The Oneness of Allah in Worship and Divinity)
-This is what separates Islam from all other religions, what makes Islam true and authentic belief and all other beliefs false. Only Allah is worthy of worship, and all creation must be subjugated to Him. The Christians took a righteous Prophet and idolized him (Jesus), and their religion entails carrying out acts of worship in the name of Jesus. The Hindus make acts of worship dedicated to their various other gods, cows, monkeys, etc. The Jews who follow kabbalah seek protection from amulets and worship their "Rebbes". The Pagans worship nature, trees, animals, etc. Buddhists make acts of prostrations to idols of the "Buddha". In short, every other religion except Islam is guilty of shirk, propogating worship of other gods beside the One True God, who is Allah.

3. Tawheed Asma wa Siffat (The Oneness of Allah in His Names and Attributes)
-No one shares Allah's Names, Qualities, or Attributes, they are exclusively His. And to deny any of His Names or attributes is also idolatry and blasphemy. For example, we believe Allah is Al-Aleem (The All Knowing), Al-Qadeer (The All-Powerful), etc. No one shares with Allah in possessing these divine characteristics. We believe Allah is not subject to hunger, sleep, or any physical needs. We believe Allah does not beget, nor is He begotten (unlike Christianity). We believe Allah does not resemble His creation, but that His Hands or His Eyes are not like anything we can imagine or conceptualize. We only believe in them without asking how.

So in essence, Tawheed is the fundamental teaching of Islam. Our Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) said that on the Day of Judgment, even if a person committed so many sins, Allah will come to him with an equal amount of mercy, on the sole condition that he did not associate any partners in worship with Allah. So believing in the oneness of Allah and worshipping Him alone is the most important thing.

2) What is the criteria used by God to determine judgement?

The second part of our creed is Muhammadun Rasoolullah, which means Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. So the criterion for Allah's judgment is the Holy Quran which He revealed to Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salam) and its explanation and expoundation by Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) by way of divine inspiration. So Allah will judge entire mankind by what He sent and revealed the Prophets with. And the shariah (law) of Muhammad is the last and final complete guidance.

3) Who will be saved?

The believers who believe in Allah, His Angels, His Prophets, His Scriptures, the reality of Heaven and Hell, and in the Divine Decree. And they are righteous acting upon that which Allah has revealed. We believe that faith is not static, but that it increases and decreases, and that faith is not separate from the actions of the limbs or the speech of the tongue, but rather it is effected by it. Whomsoever Allah wishes to guide, there is none who can misguide, and whomsoever Allah wishes to leave astray, due to a disease in their heart, there is none who can guide.

4) Who will NOT be saved?

Those who disdain to worship Allah and who associate partners with Him. The mushrikeen (idolators). Those who reject the prophets or any of the revelation which Allah has given for guidance. These people are the disbelievers and their ultimate abode is Hell, and refuge is sought with Allah from this.

[bernee51]

1) What exactly must be done to be saved?

It is very simple. To be "saved" you have to believe in La illaha ila Allah "There is none worthy of worship except Allah" and act upon this belief. The most fundamental call of all the prophets, and the most fundamental message of all the holy scriptures, is to worship One God who is Allah and leave off the worship of all other false gods and idols. This is called Tawheed and it has three categories:

What is it that it is necessary to be saved from?

1. Tawheed Rububiyyah (The Oneness of Allah in His Lordship)
-This means that Allah is One in creating and sustaining the entire cosmos and all creation. This is not the focus of Islam, because in reality virtually every other religious creed also believes in this. Jews, Christians, even Hindus believe that no one shares with "Ha Shem" or "Ishwar" in creating the universe.

You claim a conscious act of creation. 'Hinduism' claims no such thing. On what do you base this knowledge of a conscious act?

2. Tawheed Uluhiyyah (The Oneness of Allah in Worship and Divinity)
-This is what separates Islam from all other religions, what makes Islam true and authentic belief and all other beliefs false. Only Allah is worthy of worship, and all creation must be subjugated to Him.

Islam is true because it claims it is true. Is this not an illogicity?

The Christians took a righteous Prophet and idolized him (Jesus), and their religion entails carrying out acts of worship in the name of Jesus. The Hindus make acts of worship dedicated to their various other gods, cows, monkeys, etc. The Jews who follow kabbalah seek protection from amulets and worship their "Rebbes". The Pagans worship nature, trees, animals, etc. Buddhists make acts of prostrations to idols of the "Buddha". In short, every other religion except Islam is guilty of shirk, propogating worship of other gods beside the One True God, who is Allah.

Then all religions - Islam included are equally guilty in their idolization of their object of worship.

2) What is the criteria used by God to determine judgement?

The second part of our creed is Muhammadun Rasoolullah, which means Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah. So the criterion for Allah's judgment is the Holy Quran which He revealed to Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa salam) and its explanation and expoundation by Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salam) by way of divine inspiration. So Allah will judge entire mankind by what He sent and revealed the Prophets with. And the shariah (law) of Muhammad is the last and final complete guidance.

IOW it is a 'judgement' devised and determined by man.

3) Who will be saved?

The believers who believe in Allah, His Angels, His Prophets, His Scriptures, the reality of Heaven and Hell, and in the Divine Decree. And they are righteous acting upon that which Allah has revealed. We believe that faith is not static, but that it increases and decreases, and that faith is not separate from the actions of the limbs or the speech of the tongue, but rather it is effected by it. Whomsoever Allah wishes to guide, there is none who can misguide, and whomsoever Allah wishes to leave astray, due to a disease in their heart, there is none who can guide.

Why does Allah not wish to guide me?

4) Who will NOT be saved?

Those who disdain to worship Allah and who associate partners with Him. The mushrikeen (idolators). Those who reject the prophets or any of the revelation which Allah has given for guidance. These people are the disbelievers and their ultimate abode is Hell, and refuge is sought with Allah from this.

Does Allah wish that some not be saved?

[Ilias Ahmad]

What is it that it is necessary to be saved from?

It is necessary to be saved from the wrath of Allah, which encompasses the disbelievers. When we make our supplications in our daily five prayers we pray: Inni audhubika min adhabil qabr wa min adhabil jahanama "Verily I seek refuge in You (Allah) from the punishment of the grave and the punishment of the hellfire"
These are two great forms of punishment, which will encompass the disbelievers and the unrighteous people.

You claim a conscious act of creation. 'Hinduism' claims no such thing. On what do you base this knowledge of a conscious act?

Whether or not Hinduism claims the process of creation was conscious or not is not the point of discussion. The point is that Muslims believe, like Hindus, Jews, Christians, etc., that the process of creation is attributed to a single Creator. Islam only goes further in propogating that only that single Creator is worthy of worship, whereas other religions, Hinduism and Christianity, advocate worship of creation. Cows did not create the universe, why do Hindus woship them? Jesus, a man born from a woman, subject to life and death and all human qualities, did not create the universe, why do Christians worship him? Why do pagans worship the sun and moon, when the sun and moon are created objects, having a beginning and having an end. Only Allah is without beginning and end, He is Al-Awwal wa'l Akhir (The First and the Last), He precedes the creation before it was created, and He will proceed the creation after it has been brought to an end. Therefore the philosophy of Islam is the simplest, most logical and most true.

Hindus, like Christians, believe in a trinity which they call the trimurti, consisting of three gods, Brahma (the creator), vishnu (the preserver), and shiva (the destroyer). However, Islam teaches that Allah alone is not only the Creator, but He is the Preserver and Destroyer as well. All divine qualities belong to Allah alone, and therefore He alone is worthy of worship. The Christians believe God the Father is the Creator of the Heavens and the Earth, but they believe Jesus is God incarnate, a separate person with a separate will, as is the Holy Spirit. Effectively, Christians accuse God of having "multiple personality disorder" and refuge is sought with Allah from such a blasphemous belief. The Islamic creed regarding the concept is most logical, consistent, powerful, and might I add scientific.

Then all religions - Islam included are equally guilty in their idolization of their object of worship.

Yes, all religions teach mankind to worship someone or something. That is not the issue. The issue is that which Islam teaches to worship, and that which others teach to worship, who is more deserving of worship. For example, Christianity teaches to worship Jesus, a man who was NOT omnicient according to his own words (Matthew 24:36), who admitted that he is powerless and can do NOTHING of his ownself (John 5:30). Likewise, Hindus worship cows, in that is a case in which the worshipper is superior in abilities and intelligence to the object of his worship! Pagans worship the sun and moon, objects which were created, have a beginning, and will be destroyed eventually. However, what we Muslims worship is demonstrably superior in every meaningful aspect to the throngs of "false gods" which man worships. So even a skeptical atheist such as yourself is forced to admit that even if Islam is not true, it is more logical and consistent with regard to its concept of God than any other religion.

[Ilias Ahmad]

Why does Allah not wish to guide me?

Neither you or I know the will of Allah with regard to your personal guidance. It may be Allah Holy and Exalted is He does wish to guide you and perhaps will guide you sometime in the future. Or perhaps due to a disease in your heart, Allah does not wish to guide you, and so no matter how hard many Muslims may try to convince you of the truth of Islam, you can never be guided. We only know the will of Allah through that which He has revealed, namely the Holy Quran and the Sunnah. In neither of these sources of divine guidance has Allah mentioned you personally and what His plan for you is, therefore I cannot answer your question.

Does Allah wish that some not be saved?

Yes, those who have a disease in their heart, those whose hearts, vision, and hearing He has placed a seal on. They are the most depraved of His creation.

[bernee51]

What is it that it is necessary to be saved from?

It is necessary to be saved from the wrath of Allah, which encompasses the disbelievers.

Why does Allah have this weakness of spirit that results in wrath?

When we make our supplications in our daily five prayers we pray: Inni audhubika min adhabil qabr wa min adhabil jahanama "Verily I seek refuge in You (Allah) from the punishment of the grave and the punishment of the hellfire"
These are two great forms of punishment, which will encompass the disbelievers and the unrighteous people.

How is the grave - the only certain future of all - a 'punishment?

You claim a conscious act of creation. 'Hinduism' claims no such thing. On what do you base this knowledge of a conscious act?

Whether or not Hinduism claims the process of creation was conscious or not is not the point of discussion. The point is that Muslims believe, like Hindus, Jews, Christians, etc., that the process of creation is attributed to a single Creator.

A 'creator' implies an act of creation. The act of creation seems to be limited to the JCI god. I have yet to meet a Hindu (or read a Hindu text) who would agree with this idea.

Islam only goes further in propogating that only that single Creator is worthy of worship, whereas other religions, Hinduism and Christianity, advocate worship of creation.

On what do you base the claim that Christians and Hindus worship creation?

Cows did not create the universe, why do Hindus woship them?

They don't.

Jesus, a man born from a woman, subject to life and death and all human qualities, did not create the universe, why do Christians worship him?

Because they believe he is god.

Why do pagans worship the sun and moon, when the sun and moon are created objects, having a beginning and having an end.

Pretty silly isn't it.

Only Allah is without beginning and end, He is Al-Awwal wa'l Akhir (The First and the Last), He precedes the creation before it was created, and He will proceed the creation after it has been brought to an end.

How do you know this to be the case?

Why is it not possible for the universe, in some form or another, to have always and will always exist?

Therefore the philosophy of Islam is the simplest, most logical and most true.

No it isn't. The simplest, most logical and the only one that evidence supports is the one that claims we are born and die with all else in between being a mental construct.

Hindus, like Christians, believe in a trinity which they call the trimurti, consisting of three gods, Brahma (the creator), vishnu (the preserver), and shiva (the destroyer).

Indeed. They describe aspects of the godhead.

However, Islam teaches that Allah alone is not only the Creator, but He is the Preserver and Destroyer as well. All divine qualities belong to Allah alone, and therefore He alone is worthy of worship.

Just like the names of Allah

Effectively, Christians accuse God of having "multiple personality disorder" and refuge is sought with Allah from such a blasphemous belief. The Islamic creed regarding the concept is most logical, consistent, powerful, and might I add scientific.

You might add 'scientific' but that would be open to dispute.

Then all religions - Islam included are equally guilty in their idolization of their object of worship.

So even a skeptical atheist such as yourself is forced to admit that even if Islam is not true, it is more logical and consistent with regard to its concept of God than any other religion.

I am in full agreement that god is a concept.

As to the 'Christian view' of god and its 'purity' I would prefer the opinion of Meister Eckhart over that of a Muslim with an axe to grind - “The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me�

[bernee51]

Why does Allah not wish to guide me?

Neither you or I know the will of Allah with regard to your personal guidance.

Yet you know (or believe) Allah guides you?

It may be Allah Holy and Exalted is He does wish to guide you and perhaps will guide you sometime in the future.

The old 'god moves in mysterious ways' defense. It is reassuring to note that this is not limited to Christians.

Or perhaps due to a disease in your heart, ...

Then according to your beliefs Allah has made me like this? Why would Allah wish to create beings which he is destined to punish for all eternity.

Is Allah the Malevolent or Allah the Masochist listed in the 99 names?

We only know the will of Allah through that which He has revealed, namely the Holy Quran and the Sunnah.

Who are the 'true Muslims'(tm) - Sunni or Shia?

Does Allah wish that some not be saved?

Yes, those who have a disease in their heart, those whose hearts, vision, and hearing He has placed a seal on. They are the most depraved of His creation.

Then why create them? You must know the answer - all 'truth' is in the Koran. Or is it?

[Ilias Ahmad]

Why does Allah have this weakness of spirit that results in wrath?

Its not "weakness of spirit" - God forbid - but Allah is the Most Just, Justice being one of His divine qualities. So He always acts justly. Punishing evil and rewarding good is in accordance with the demands of justice. This is why we affirm belief in Heaven and Hell. Those who refuse to worship Allah, or compromise His worship by adding partners to the worship which is His sole right, are committing the greatest sin. It is rather strange to believe that because Allah punishes the evildoers He is somehow "malevolent". When the state punishes criminals, or even when a parent disciplines an unruly child, this is not considered malevolent. Why the double standard?

How is the grave - the only certain future of all - a 'punishment?

There is a separate life in the grave which is called "Barzakh". The disbelievers and unrighteous people are punished in the grave, it is a foreshadowing of their eternal and more severe punishment in Hell.

A 'creator' implies an act of creation. The act of creation seems to be limited to the JCI god. I have yet to meet a Hindu (or read a Hindu text) who would agree with this idea.

Mainstream Hinduism (if there is such a thing) believes that Brahma is the Creator aspect of the triune Godhead, very similar to Christian concept of the trinity. You can look this up for yourself if you don't want to take my word for it. I'm not a scholar on Hinduism, but it's not really a cohesive religion.

On what do you base the claim that Christians and Hindus worship creation?

Christians worship Jesus, a human being, and therefore a creation of God. Christian may claim otherwise, that Jesus is pre-existing and eternal, alpha and omega, etc. But the fact of the matter is that he was came out of a woman's womb and was subject to all human frailties. Thus to make him an object of worship, which the Christians do, is to worship a creation of God.

Hindus are perhaps the best example of creation-worshippers. Because they believe in pantheism, they have no problem worshipping "manifestations" and "incarnations" of the divine, despite the fact that such manifestations and incarnations are also creation, and they acknowledge the creation of the Creator God who is known as Brahma to them.

Similarly, the Zoroastrians worship fire, the Pagans worship trees and nature, many extreme Sufis worship graves, and Twelver Shias (who are not Muslim) worship their "Twelve Imams".

Your confusion probably stems from the fact that you consider worship merely to be praying to someone or something for help. Prayer is an act of worship, but there are many acts of worship. Making prostration to something, sacrificing an animal in something's name, undertaking an oath in someone's name, making a pilgrimage to a shrine dedicated to someone or something, etc., these are all acts of worship according to Islam, and all such acts must be dedicated solely to Allah Glorified and Exalted is He. Also, shirk (idolatry), which is the greatest sin according to Islam as well as the Bible does not just mean worshipping an image. Shirk also means to give a divine quality which belongs to Allah alone to His creation. So for example, Christians give virtually all divine qualities which belong to Allah alone to Jesus, such as omnicience and omnipotence. Shias give these divine qualities to their 12 Imams, Sikhs to their 14 Gurus, Hindus to their bhagvans and avatars, Catholics to their saints and Virgin Mary, Sufis to their Walis, and the list goes on. Shirk is also to deny a divine quality of God, or to make God resemble His creation. For example, Jews are known for giving anthropomorphic qualities to God. Buddhists deny many of God's qualities, and reduce God to an impersonal cosmic system of little importance.

But the original point is that virtually every religion teaches their adherents to worship something that is created, even if they don't admit it.

[bernee51]

Why does Allah have this weakness of spirit that results in wrath?

Its not "weakness of spirit" - God forbid - but Allah is the Most Just, Justice being one of His divine qualities. So He always acts justly. Punishing evil and rewarding good is in accordance with the demands of justice. This is why we affirm belief in Heaven and Hell. Those who refuse to worship Allah, or compromise His worship by adding partners to the worship which is His sole right, are committing the greatest sin.

Having a requirement to be worshiped where the punishment for not doing so is hellfire, is a sign of weakness. Any god worth the name should be worthy of worship for its own sake - no threats of punishment should be necessary.

Tell me - is Allah perfect. Is Allah all powerful? If so he could not have created the universe.

If he is perfect he must be unchanging. Before he created he one of his attributes was 'he who had not created'. After creation he became 'he who has created'. He changed and therefore cannot have been or be perfect.

Was the universe created as an act of will or did it create without Allah willing it? If he created as an act of will he was subject to his desire to create. The desire then is greater than Allah. He cannot be all-powerful.

Allah is an impossibility.

And regarding Mohammed. Why would a perfect. compassionate god choose as his messenger one who forces himself upon a child for political reasons and using his position as leverage.

Allah is a bad judge of character.

It is rather strange to believe that because Allah punishes the evildoers He is somehow "malevolent". When the state punishes criminals, or even when a parent disciplines an unruly child, this is not considered malevolent. Why the double standard?

So not believing in Allah makes me a criminal? Is not believing in Allah the same as a being a naughty child? Was Aisha a naughty child?

A naughty child is forgiven and will perhaps learn? A criminal does his 'time'. Not believing in Allah is never forgiven and there is no 'time' when that the punishment is enough.

The analogies you put forward are false and inadequate.

How is the grave - the only certain future of all - a 'punishment?

There is a separate life in the grave which is called "Barzakh". The disbelievers and unrighteous people are punished in the grave, it is a foreshadowing of their eternal and more severe punishment in Hell.

I thought all went to Barzakh until Judgement Day.

A 'creator' implies an act of creation. The act of creation seems to be limited to the JCI god. I have yet to meet a Hindu (or read a Hindu text) who would agree with this idea.

Mainstream Hinduism (if there is such a thing) believes that Brahma is the Creator aspect of the triune Godhead, very similar to Christian concept of the trinity. You can look this up for yourself if you don't want to take my word for it. I'm not a scholar on Hinduism, but it's not really a cohesive religion.

I have spent much time in India and have read widely of Hinduism. Brahma is not a creator deity in the same sense as that claimed of the JCI god.

Your confusion probably stems from the fact that you consider worship merely to be praying to someone or something for help.

Thank you for telling me what my confusion is. Obviously Islam endows believers with many talents.

Buddhists deny many of God's qualities, and reduce God to an impersonal cosmic system of little importance.

Buddhism is not theistic so your claim is a non-sequitur. I doubt that any Buddhist would claim the 'cosmic system' is of little importance.

But the original point is that virtually every religion teaches their adherents to worship something that is created, even if they don't admit it.

As I stated - all religions are the same in this regard.

[Ilias Ahmad]

Having a requirement to be worshiped where the punishment for not doing so is hellfire, is a sign of weakness. Any god worth the name should be worthy of worship for its own sake - no threats of punishment should be necessary.

Worship does not benefit Allah, it is for our own sake. Those who disdain to worship Allah in reality are evil and they have a disease in their heart.

If he is perfect he must be unchanging. Before he created he one of his attributes was 'he who had not created'. After creation he became 'he who has created'. He changed and therefore cannot have been or be perfect.

Allah is beyond space and time and His attributes are eternal. His attributes do not always have to be in operation either for Him to possess them.

Was the universe created as an act of will or did it create without Allah willing it? If he created as an act of will he was subject to his desire to create. The desire then is greater than Allah. He cannot be all-powerful.

This is too silly to even respond to. Allah is not subject to anything. Everything is subject to Him.

And regarding Mohammed. Why would a perfect. compassionate god choose as his messenger one who forces himself upon a child for political reasons and using his position as leverage.

Our beloved Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa salam) is a perfect model of righteousness and this is why he was chosen by Allah for the spiritual reformation of mankind. His marriage with Aisha was arranged in the Heavens, not for "political reasons".

So not believing in Allah makes me a criminal? Is not believing in Allah the same as a being a naughty child? Was Aisha a naughty child?

Yes, not believing in Allah is kufr (disbelief), it is worse than any crime. It is much worse than being a "naughty child". Kufr is the root of all evil deeds and actions. One who disdains to worship Allah is a purely evil person, and nothing but evil can emanate from such a person.

Aisha was a righteous woman, the wife of our beloved Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salam). May Allah be pleased with her.

Not believing in Allah is never forgiven and there is no 'time' when that the punishment is enough.

A king has the power to pardon his subject for a crime, as long as that subject recognizes his authority. But if a criminal is guilty of treason, that is not recognizing the government, or conspiring with a foreign force, than usually such a criminal is hanged. Allah is the King of kings. Those who sin against Him and repent from their sins sincerely, than they should hope for Allah's mercy. But those who do not even recognize Allah, or compromise His Oneness by worshipping other gods, they are guilty of "spiritual treason" and mercy for them is out of the question.

I thought all went to Barzakh until Judgement Day.

Barzakh can be either a place of happiness or misery, depending if one is a righteous or sinner, a believer or disbeliever.

I have spent much time in India and have read widely of Hinduism. Brahma is not a creator deity in the same sense as that claimed of the JCI god.

Of course there are some differences between Hindu concept of creation and the Islamic concept. But our point is only that Hindus attribute the phenomena of creation to one deity, yet worship millions of other deities who are not responsible for creation.