Is universal Salvation possible? Does it make sense?

[achilles12604]

I think that Universal Salvation is possible. However, I do not think it makes an ounce of sense. If someone is in open rebellion to God because he hates him, and his actions cause pain and suffering around him on earth, why should this person be given the opportunity to enter heaven with the same people he hurt on earth?

If a murderer is given the death penalty, and then goes to heaven to be next to his victim, what justice is there in that? Is this Just? If it is NOT just, like I believe it not to be, then what does this say about God who authored this situation? He is not just. If God is not just, then why should I follow him?

[justifyothers]

I think that Universal Salvation is possible. However, I do not think it makes an ounce of sense. If someone is in open rebellion to God because he hates him, and his actions cause pain and suffering around him on earth, why should this person be given the opportunity to enter heaven with the same people he hurt on earth?

If a murderer is given the death penalty, and then goes to heaven to be next to his victim, what justice is there in that? Is this Just? If it is NOT just, like I believe it not to be, then what does this say about God who authored this situation? He is not just. If God is not just, then why should I follow him?

The very good thing about God is that He can see all. The murderer is obviously deranged and insane. Sane and rational people do not murder others. Why is he crazy? What happened to him? Is it genetic? Did he watch his own father beat his mother senseless each night when he was young? Did he grow up in a world where murder just isn't that big of a deal? Maybe he saw it all around him and grew up with the idea that life is not precious.

One of these options is likely. Good thing God knows what happened, and better yet, good thing He can forgive. AND bonus, if the murderer sees his victim, the victim will be able to forgive also. (love your enemies)

This is actually the epitome of justice.

[OpenedUp]

Unfortunantly this is where my existential side comes into play.

The world is not fair, the world is not jsut, the bad are not punished, the good are not rewarded. Things are just the way they are.

It's a tough world sometimes and it's a beautiful world sometimes.

[achilles12604]

I think that Universal Salvation is possible. However, I do not think it makes an ounce of sense. If someone is in open rebellion to God because he hates him, and his actions cause pain and suffering around him on earth, why should this person be given the opportunity to enter heaven with the same people he hurt on earth?

If a murderer is given the death penalty, and then goes to heaven to be next to his victim, what justice is there in that? Is this Just? If it is NOT just, like I believe it not to be, then what does this say about God who authored this situation? He is not just. If God is not just, then why should I follow him?

The very good thing about God is that He can see all. The murderer is obviously deranged and insane. Sane and rational people do not murder others. Why is he crazy? What happened to him? Is it genetic? Did he watch his own father beat his mother senseless each night when he was young? Did he grow up in a world where murder just isn't that big of a deal? Maybe he saw it all around him and grew up with the idea that life is not precious.

One of these options is likely. Good thing God knows what happened, and better yet, good thing He can forgive. AND bonus, if the murderer sees his victim, the victim will be able to forgive also. (love your enemies)

This is actually the epitome of justice.

So you are of the opinion that the murderer was incapable of making a good choice because someone hurt him in the past?

Is this his excuse?

[achilles12604]

Unfortunantly this is where my existential side comes into play.

The world is not fair, the world is not jsut, the bad are not punished, the good are not rewarded. Things are just the way they are.

It's a tough world sometimes and it's a beautiful world sometimes.

While I disagree, I applaude you for at least retaining the pure atheistic view. There is no untimate justice in the universe is the true atheists view.

[justifyothers]

I think that Universal Salvation is possible. However, I do not think it makes an ounce of sense. If someone is in open rebellion to God because he hates him, and his actions cause pain and suffering around him on earth, why should this person be given the opportunity to enter heaven with the same people he hurt on earth?

If a murderer is given the death penalty, and then goes to heaven to be next to his victim, what justice is there in that? Is this Just? If it is NOT just, like I believe it not to be, then what does this say about God who authored this situation? He is not just. If God is not just, then why should I follow him?

The very good thing about God is that He can see all. The murderer is obviously deranged and insane. Sane and rational people do not murder others. Why is he crazy? What happened to him? Is it genetic? Did he watch his own father beat his mother senseless each night when he was young? Did he grow up in a world where murder just isn't that big of a deal? Maybe he saw it all around him and grew up with the idea that life is not precious.

One of these options is likely. Good thing God knows what happened, and better yet, good thing He can forgive. AND bonus, if the murderer sees his victim, the victim will be able to forgive also. (love your enemies)

This is actually the epitome of justice.

So you are of the opinion that the murderer was incapable of making a good choice because someone hurt him in the past?

Is this his excuse?

No excuse.......just the way it is sometimes. Yes, I think some people have had experiences in their lives (or their ENTIRE lives) that make them insane and incapable of making good choices. Do you disagree with this idea?

[OpenedUp]

Unfortunantly this is where my existential side comes into play.

The world is not fair, the world is not jsut, the bad are not punished, the good are not rewarded. Things are just the way they are.

It's a tough world sometimes and it's a beautiful world sometimes.

While I disagree, I applaude you for at least retaining the pure atheistic view. There is no untimate justice in the universe is the true atheists view.

Yep pretty much. (Though if you got technical you could be atheist and believe in some other form of justice, as long as it's not a God)

Bad things happent o good people all the time.

I don't see the justice

[achilles12604]

I think that Universal Salvation is possible. However, I do not think it makes an ounce of sense. If someone is in open rebellion to God because he hates him, and his actions cause pain and suffering around him on earth, why should this person be given the opportunity to enter heaven with the same people he hurt on earth?

If a murderer is given the death penalty, and then goes to heaven to be next to his victim, what justice is there in that? Is this Just? If it is NOT just, like I believe it not to be, then what does this say about God who authored this situation? He is not just. If God is not just, then why should I follow him?

The very good thing about God is that He can see all. The murderer is obviously deranged and insane. Sane and rational people do not murder others. Why is he crazy? What happened to him? Is it genetic? Did he watch his own father beat his mother senseless each night when he was young? Did he grow up in a world where murder just isn't that big of a deal? Maybe he saw it all around him and grew up with the idea that life is not precious.

One of these options is likely. Good thing God knows what happened, and better yet, good thing He can forgive. AND bonus, if the murderer sees his victim, the victim will be able to forgive also. (love your enemies)

This is actually the epitome of justice.

So you are of the opinion that the murderer was incapable of making a good choice because someone hurt him in the past?

Is this his excuse?

No excuse.......just the way it is sometimes. Yes, I think some people have had experiences in their lives (or their ENTIRE lives) that make them insane and incapable of making good choices. Do you disagree with this idea?

People like this are extremely few and far between. Usually something like this is pre-dated with severe mental disorders and is due to damage of the brain.

Do I think that a person's EMOTIONS can cause such a state? Absolutely NOT! Anger is not a viable excuse. Temporary insanity is a bogus concept invented by defense lawyers. It is a mask for extreme anger.

Brain damage? Perhaps. But the number of murders caused by someone sufferig from brain damage or an actual impairment of some sort is VERY VERY VERY low.

I can provide you with some stats about the insanity plea if you need further evidence.

[Zzyzx]

.

Unfortunantly this is where my existential side comes into play.

The world is not fair, the world is not jsut, the bad are not punished, the good are not rewarded. Things are just the way they are.

It's a tough world sometimes and it's a beautiful world sometimes.

While I disagree, I applaude you for at least retaining the pure atheistic view.

That is NOT an "atheistic view" it a REALISTIC view. No one has a monopoly on that idea. (Though I, personally, would say “not always fair and just" because that does happen without certainty).

Would anyone attempt to argue that the world is fair and just and that good people are invariably rewarded? Would anyone attempt to argue that the world is NOT tough at times and beautiful sometimes????

A theist can agree to each of the points above without becoming a non-theist. Religious belief has nothing to do with whether the world is “fair” or “just” or “easy” or “beautiful”.

Isn't that just the way the world IS -- Not how it "should be" or how "god wants it" or any other idealistic or wishful thinking?

There is no untimate justice in the universe is the true atheists view.

There is no assurance of “ultimate justice” in the universe following religious beliefs. There is a THEORY of what passes as “justice” as defined by Christians interpreting what they thing their favored gods will provide in a proposed “afterlife”.

Belief in an “afterlife” is NOT assurance of “ultimate justice”.

[Beto]

I think that Universal Salvation is possible. However, I do not think it makes an ounce of sense. If someone is in open rebellion to God because he hates him, and his actions cause pain and suffering around him on earth, why should this person be given the opportunity to enter heaven with the same people he hurt on earth?

If a murderer is given the death penalty, and then goes to heaven to be next to his victim, what justice is there in that? Is this Just? If it is NOT just, like I believe it not to be, then what does this say about God who authored this situation? He is not just. If God is not just, then why should I follow him?

The very good thing about God is that He can see all. The murderer is obviously deranged and insane. Sane and rational people do not murder others. Why is he crazy? What happened to him? Is it genetic? Did he watch his own father beat his mother senseless each night when he was young? Did he grow up in a world where murder just isn't that big of a deal? Maybe he saw it all around him and grew up with the idea that life is not precious.

One of these options is likely. Good thing God knows what happened, and better yet, good thing He can forgive. AND bonus, if the murderer sees his victim, the victim will be able to forgive also. (love your enemies)

This is actually the epitome of justice.

So you are of the opinion that the murderer was incapable of making a good choice because someone hurt him in the past?

Is this his excuse?

No excuse.......just the way it is sometimes. Yes, I think some people have had experiences in their lives (or their ENTIRE lives) that make them insane and incapable of making good choices. Do you disagree with this idea?

People like this are extremely few and far between. Usually something like this is pre-dated with severe mental disorders and is due to damage of the brain.

Do I think that a person's EMOTIONS can cause such a state? Absolutely NOT! Anger is not a viable excuse. Temporary insanity is a bogus concept invented by defense lawyers. It is a mask for extreme anger.

Brain damage? Perhaps. But the number of murders caused by someone sufferig from brain damage or an actual impairment of some sort is VERY VERY VERY low.

I can provide you with some stats about the insanity plea if you need further evidence.

An odd concentration of genes can make it almost impossible for someone not to be the proverbial "addict". Another unusual concentration can, hypothetically (as far as I know) make it very hard for someone to control their temper. If humans were designed this way, it's a serious design flaw for an alleged "perfect" creator, assuming the theory is right, of course, and I haven't seen a great case against it. Just as the world isn't 100% just, some people don't have 100% responsibility for their actions, without being what most people consider "insane". Would these people be denied "Heaven" for not being exceedingly strong?