Ambiguity about "life" and "evolution"

[Beto]

It's getting very frustrating to read about how the Theory of Evolution doesn't explain how "species" can turn into other "species", and how "life" "began", knowing full well not everyone understands the words in the same way, resulting in ridiculous discussions with people arguing about different things.

In this thread I would like to see people recognizing that they are not attributing the same meaning to the words "life" and "species".

Honestly, since creationists seem to thrive on the ambiguity of these concepts I don't really expect to see much of them here.

Personally (and I suspect many others in this forum), already regard both "life" and "species" as something that is in context with the Theory of Evolution, so how can I argue with creationists that don't agree with even the basic premises of the theory?

For this reason, I fear all and any debate between "evolutionists" and creationists is doomed to failure. Does anyone see a solution?

[JoelWildtree]

For this reason, I fear all and any debate between "evolutionists" and creationists is doomed to failure. Does anyone see a solution?

I agree with this totally. You've got to remember that a Creationist most likely isn't arguing from the perspective of wanting to find the truth, but from the perspective of already "knowing" the truth, and thus rationalizing away the evidence that doesn't fit the pattern.

A good place to start may be to keep on ONE specific topic within Evolution (such as the evolution of humans), and then we avoid getting into the issues of "origins" and "first causes" which always tend to creep into such conversations. It's important to explain that we have sufficient evidence that evolution happens and has happened for millions/billions of years, and even lacking certain markers along the way does not in anyway invalidate the whole process.

[Furrowed Brow]

I agree with this totally. You've got to remember that a Creationist most likely isn't arguing from the perspective of wanting to find the truth, but from the perspective of already "knowing" the truth, and thus rationalizing away the evidence that doesn't fit the pattern.

I think it might even be worse than that if I was to form judgement solely from recent threads. I think it works like this -

• evolution must be false by definition therefore any argument that claims evolution is false is true. No matter what is said by the evolutionist it cannot possible be cogent.so ignore it. Moreover any argument that rests on scripture must by definition accurately place words and concepts in their correct context. So it is not necessary or helpful to take evolutionary categories seriously, for they are not only wrong but utterly confused. Any semantic shenanigans must by definition belong to the evolutionist who are twisting things. I don't know why but they seem unable to comprehend the correct conceptual connections provided by God. A point which proves they do not actually understand the correct meanings of the words they are using. These evolutionist guys then seem hell bent on projecting their confusions on to me by keep repeating the same evolutionary dogma, as if repetition will make their words anymore more meaningful. I kindly point out how illogical their theory is, to which they seem to think this requires they reiterate their crazy theory back one more time as if that were some kind of evidence it is logical. Ha ha ha! As if I dont get. Of course I dont get it - it's nonsense!! It would not be so bad if they actuallly had some evidence and were being properly scientific. But they have no evidence at all and are completely unable to supply any whatsoever. I know this because I have checked what they have said, and it is all meaningless nonsense.....which I've proven to them with scripture many times...but its like they've stuck their fingers in their ears lalalalalalalalala and don't know how to listen. I should give up on them but the truth needs to be said. Their illogical arguments combated with right thinking. However, I'm not radicalised or anything. Their lying, twisting, utterly unscientific, atheistic philosophy does not bother me in the slightest.....not in the slightest....uh um...not at all. I just want them to stop calling their false theory a fact. That's all. Just humbly asking for a bit of honesty and clear thinking from the atheist camp. They can't be against that as well as God too can they?

[Fisherking]

I agree with this totally. You've got to remember that a Creationist most likely isn't arguing from the perspective of wanting to find the truth, but from the perspective of already "knowing" the truth, and thus rationalizing away the evidence that doesn't fit the pattern.

I think it might even be worse than that if I was to form judgement solely from recent threads. I think it works like this -

• evolution must be false by definition therefore any argument that claims evolution is false is true. No matter what is said by the evolutionist it cannot possible be cogent.so ignore it. Moreover any argument that rests on scripture must by definition accurately place words and concepts in their correct context. So it is not necessary or helpful to take evolutionary categories seriously, for they are not only wrong but utterly confused. Any semantic shenanigans must by definition belong to the evolutionist who are twisting things. I don't know why but they seem unable to comprehend the correct conceptual connections provided by God. A point which proves they do not actually understand the correct meanings of the words they are using. These evolutionist guys then seem hell bent on projecting their confusions on to me by keep repeating the same evolutionary dogma, as if repetition will make their words anymore more meaningful. I kindly point out how illogical their theory is, to which they seem to think this requires they reiterate their crazy theory back one more time as if that were some kind of evidence it is logical. Ha ha ha! As if I dont get. Of course I dont get it - it's nonsense!! It would not be so bad if they actuallly had some evidence and were being properly scientific. But they have no evidence at all and are completely unable to supply any whatsoever. I know this because I have checked what they have said, and it is all meaningless nonsense.....which I've proven to them with scripture many times...but its like they've stuck their fingers in their ears lalalalalalalalala and don't know how to listen. I should give up on them but the truth needs to be said. Their illogical arguments combated with right thinking. However, I'm not radicalised or anything. Their lying, twisting, utterly unscientific, atheistic philosophy does not bother me in the slightest.....not in the slightest....uh um...not at all. I just want them to stop calling their false theory a fact. That's all. Just humbly asking for a bit of honesty and clear thinking from the atheist camp. They can't be against that as well as God too can they?

I love it FB! I'm bored of the whole debate thing, but this made me laugh (literally).

[Beto]

I agree with this totally. You've got to remember that a Creationist most likely isn't arguing from the perspective of wanting to find the truth, but from the perspective of already "knowing" the truth, and thus rationalizing away the evidence that doesn't fit the pattern.

I think it might even be worse than that if I was to form judgement solely from recent threads. I think it works like this -

• evolution must be false by definition therefore any argument that claims evolution is false is true. No matter what is said by the evolutionist it cannot possible be cogent.so ignore it. Moreover any argument that rests on scripture must by definition accurately place words and concepts in their correct context. So it is not necessary or helpful to take evolutionary categories seriously, for they are not only wrong but utterly confused. Any semantic shenanigans must by definition belong to the evolutionist who are twisting things. I don't know why but they seem unable to comprehend the correct conceptual connections provided by God. A point which proves they do not actually understand the correct meanings of the words they are using. These evolutionist guys then seem hell bent on projecting their confusions on to me by keep repeating the same evolutionary dogma, as if repetition will make their words anymore more meaningful. I kindly point out how illogical their theory is, to which they seem to think this requires they reiterate their crazy theory back one more time as if that were some kind of evidence it is logical. Ha ha ha! As if I dont get. Of course I dont get it - it's nonsense!! It would not be so bad if they actuallly had some evidence and were being properly scientific. But they have no evidence at all and are completely unable to supply any whatsoever. I know this because I have checked what they have said, and it is all meaningless nonsense.....which I've proven to them with scripture many times...but its like they've stuck their fingers in their ears lalalalalalalalala and don't know how to listen. I should give up on them but the truth needs to be said. Their illogical arguments combated with right thinking. However, I'm not radicalised or anything. Their lying, twisting, utterly unscientific, atheistic philosophy does not bother me in the slightest.....not in the slightest....uh um...not at all. I just want them to stop calling their false theory a fact. That's all. Just humbly asking for a bit of honesty and clear thinking from the atheist camp. They can't be against that as well as God too can they?

I love it FB! I'm bored of the whole debate thing, but this made me laugh (literally).

It's funny because it's true.

And I understand how you would be bored about the issue of ambiguity, since you're probably one of those that ignore all remarks about their systematic use of the logical fallacy while "debating", and avoid addressing the matter like the plague. But like I said, I didn't expect you to contribute in any significant way.

[Fisherking]

It's funny because it's true.

More than you know

In this thread I would like to see people recognizing that they are not attributing the same meaning to the words "life" and "species".

Done.

Does anyone see a solution?

How about defining life and species for us -- you know, the non-ambiguous type.

Personally (and I suspect many others in this forum), already regard both "life" and "species" as something that is in context with the Theory of Evolution, so how can I argue with creationists that don't agree with even the basic premises of the theory?

Nothing like a good dose of ambiguity to make ya go hmmm.

[Beto]

It's funny because it's true.

More than you know

In this thread I would like to see people recognizing that they are not attributing the same meaning to the words "life" and "species".

Done.

Does anyone see a solution?

How about defining life and species for us -- you know, the non-ambiguous type.

Personally (and I suspect many others in this forum), already regard both "life" and "species" as something that is in context with the Theory of Evolution, so how can I argue with creationists that don't agree with even the basic premises of the theory?

Nothing like a good dose of ambiguity to make ya go hmmm.

Is the gentleman suddenly not bored? You'll forgive me if I don't really care for debating with you on this particular thread.