In another thread, an attempt was made to find the definition of the holy spirit. the first definition given.
"you will know the holy spirit by it's fruits.(I.E. the holy spirit is what makes people behave morally)"
was agreed invalid on the basis that that would indicate that many atheists have the holy spirit.
the second definition given, which was simply to add that 'only christians can posses the holy spirit.'
was shown invalid because from that it can be concluded that either
Atheists never perform moral actions,
which is obviously false, or
Atheists are more moral beings than christians, because atheists perform moral actions without the holy spirit, whereas christians require the holy spirit to perform moral actions
which is also obviously false.
So I ask, what then, is the holy spirit?
Simply give a definition and be willing to defend it under scrutiny please.
also, two points if you catch the obscure reference in the description of my thread.
What is the holy spirit?
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Post #2
According to the Bible, God is Holy; God is Spirit and there is only one God. Wouldn't then one conclude that God, according to Scripture, is the Holy Spirit? Is that too simplistic? Am I missing something? Is there a problem applying formal logic to theological questions?
I suppose that saying that God is the Holy Spirit does not answer the question, since it simply moves the question to another level. What is the Holy Spirit? God is the Holy Spirit. What is God? ....
I suppose that saying that God is the Holy Spirit does not answer the question, since it simply moves the question to another level. What is the Holy Spirit? God is the Holy Spirit. What is God? ....
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Post #3
Yes, that's the problem. I suppose I should have specified no useless or circular answers. if someone says the holy spirit is God, then I ask 'what is god?' I'll probably get something like 'God is love'McCulloch wrote:According to the Bible, God is Holy; God is Spirit and there is only one God. Wouldn't then one conclude that God, according to Scripture, is the Holy Spirit? Is that too simplistic? Am I missing something? Is there a problem applying formal logic to theological questions?
I suppose that saying that God is the Holy Spirit does not answer the question, since it simply moves the question to another level. What is the Holy Spirit? God is the Holy Spirit. What is God? ....
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Post #4
In my experience, when you eliminate useless or circular answers to theological questions, you end up with lots of silence. However, I am willing to be shown otherwise.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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Post #5
If god is the holy spirit, then why the distinction between the two? Why wouldn't they just say "god" instead of the "holy spirit". I can understand the distinction between god and jesus, but what exactly is the "holy spirit"?McCulloch wrote:According to the Bible, God is Holy; God is Spirit and there is only one God. Wouldn't then one conclude that God, according to Scripture, is the Holy Spirit? Is that too simplistic? Am I missing something? Is there a problem applying formal logic to theological questions?
I suppose that saying that God is the Holy Spirit does not answer the question, since it simply moves the question to another level. What is the Holy Spirit? God is the Holy Spirit. What is God? ....
Post #6
Ill recite this as good as I can based on what my pastor told me.
The Holy Spirit is a part of the Trinity. My pastor said not to think of it as a "force" surrounding you, but as an actual being just like one would think of the Father and the Son.
Here's a quote which seems to give a description of the role of the Holy Spirit:
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you." (Gospel of John 14:26-27)
The role of the Holy Spirit seems to be as a counselor. Perhaps He's a sort of intimate companion with Christians throughout their life. He teaches them what they need to know and makes sure they mature spiritually. Like the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is another manifestation of God. Each manifestation seems to have specific purposes, but they are all a part of God.
That's the best I can do. I can't argue whether any of this is true or not. But I'll discuss whether the Holy Spirit should or should not be interpreted this way, or what should further be analyzed about the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is a part of the Trinity. My pastor said not to think of it as a "force" surrounding you, but as an actual being just like one would think of the Father and the Son.
Here's a quote which seems to give a description of the role of the Holy Spirit:
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you." (Gospel of John 14:26-27)
The role of the Holy Spirit seems to be as a counselor. Perhaps He's a sort of intimate companion with Christians throughout their life. He teaches them what they need to know and makes sure they mature spiritually. Like the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is another manifestation of God. Each manifestation seems to have specific purposes, but they are all a part of God.
That's the best I can do. I can't argue whether any of this is true or not. But I'll discuss whether the Holy Spirit should or should not be interpreted this way, or what should further be analyzed about the Holy Spirit.
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Post #7
I'm not sure what answer you're looking for,
But if you ask "what is the Holy Spirit?" (capitalized)
We need to go to the bible for the answer.
According to the bible, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.
The question should not be what is the Holy Spirit?
But rather who is the Holy Spirit?
The Lord is that Spirit.
Jesus is Lord!
But if you ask "what is the Holy Spirit?" (capitalized)
We need to go to the bible for the answer.
According to the bible, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.
The question should not be what is the Holy Spirit?
But rather who is the Holy Spirit?
The Lord is that Spirit.
Jesus is Lord!
Post #8
Here's the way I think of it:CheeseNrice wrote:If god is the holy spirit, then why the distinction between the two? Why wouldn't they just say "god" instead of the "holy spirit". I can understand the distinction between god and jesus, but what exactly is the "holy spirit"?McCulloch wrote:According to the Bible, God is Holy; God is Spirit and there is only one God. Wouldn't then one conclude that God, according to Scripture, is the Holy Spirit? Is that too simplistic? Am I missing something? Is there a problem applying formal logic to theological questions?
I suppose that saying that God is the Holy Spirit does not answer the question, since it simply moves the question to another level. What is the Holy Spirit? God is the Holy Spirit. What is God? ....
There's God the Father - that's God
God the Son - Jesus
God the Holy Spirit - God in us. So like what jgh7 said, the Holy Spirit is in us to councel us and help us mature spiritually.
Pretty simple in my opinion
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Post #9
Okay, time to get back to the fun part. I've spent all day doing a lab report for biology then fixing my brother's computer.
Okay, so would it be a fair restatement to say that the holy spirit is a part of the trinity, who serves as a kind of spiritual counselor to believers, and is a being who is capable of doing this for all believers at once?
you do realize that answer doesn't help in the slightest?
what is a spirit? what is god? what does a spirit of truth do?
I'd rather you just told me yourself, but I'll accept your pastor's answer for now.jgh7 wrote:Ill recite this as good as I can based on what my pastor told me.
that's a fair position, but kinda long to be practical, I'd like to restate.The Holy Spirit is a part of the Trinity. My pastor said not to think of it as a "force" surrounding you, but as an actual being just like one would think of the Father and the Son.
The role of the Holy Spirit seems to be as a counselor. Perhaps He's a sort of intimate companion with Christians throughout their life. He teaches them what they need to know and makes sure they mature spiritually. Like the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is another manifestation of God. Each manifestation seems to have specific purposes, but they are all a part of God.
Okay, so would it be a fair restatement to say that the holy spirit is a part of the trinity, who serves as a kind of spiritual counselor to believers, and is a being who is capable of doing this for all believers at once?
InTheFlesh wrote: I'm not sure what answer you're looking for,
But if you ask "what is the Holy Spirit?" (capitalized)
We need to go to the bible for the answer.
"the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, which is also god."According to the bible, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.
The Lord is that Spirit.
Jesus is Lord!
you do realize that answer doesn't help in the slightest?
what is a spirit? what is god? what does a spirit of truth do?
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Post #10
It or She is only part of the Trinity if you presuppose the Doctrine of the Trinity.FinalEnigma wrote:Okay, time to get back to the fun part. I've spent all day doing a lab report for biology then fixing my brother's computer.
I'd rather you just told me yourself, but I'll accept your pastor's answer for now.jgh7 wrote:Ill recite this as good as I can based on what my pastor told me.
that's a fair position, but kinda long to be practical, I'd like to restate.The Holy Spirit is a part of the Trinity. My pastor said not to think of it as a "force" surrounding you, but as an actual being just like one would think of the Father and the Son.
The role of the Holy Spirit seems to be as a counselor. Perhaps He's a sort of intimate companion with Christians throughout their life. He teaches them what they need to know and makes sure they mature spiritually. Like the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is another manifestation of God. Each manifestation seems to have specific purposes, but they are all a part of God.
Okay, so would it be a fair restatement to say that the holy spirit is a part of the trinity, who serves as a kind of spiritual counselor to believers, and is a being who is capable of doing this for all believers at once?
InTheFlesh wrote: I'm not sure what answer you're looking for,
But if you ask "what is the Holy Spirit?" (capitalized)
We need to go to the bible for the answer."the Holy Spirit is the spirit of truth, which is also god."According to the bible, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth.
The Lord is that Spirit.
Jesus is Lord!
you do realize that answer doesn't help in the slightest?
what is a spirit? what is god? what does a spirit of truth do?
It is an Orthodox Christian invention and until the 4th century the Arius position was the default position as it was assumed that Jesus was subservient to the Father as the Son and and after the Greek influences where they started talking about the substance of God.
Gnostic would have a different take and the Jews still another.
In many cases the Spirit or Wind was the activity of God.
A person was a mask.
I suppose they wouldn't have had the long controversy and fighting over the Trinity had the proto-Orthodox not insisted Jesus was God.
The Ebonite tradition would not have the problem as Jesus like David and other kings were adopted or declared the son of God.
The trinity doctrine is what happens when you take Hebrew concept and force them into Greek categories. Philo tried to do something similar with Wisdom and the Logos and I suspect he was more successful and didn't come up with some doctrine that simply doesn't make sense as Christians understand the Trinity today..