Could Jesus be Satan?

2007 Rookie of the Year · Post 1: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Could Jesus be Satan?

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According to the bible Satan was "cast down to Earth" – and later a "messiah" shows up claiming to know a great deal about "god", doing "miracles" (supernatural forms of magic), calling himself by the common name Jesus, and is accepted as being "god" (or "son of god") by followers.

Satan, according to lore, is credited with supernatural powers AND a lust for power, a great ego, a deceptive nature, and with being the epitome of evil. As such "he" could easily arrange a "virgin birth", could he not? With supernatural powers couldn't he also walk on water, feed multitudes from a lunchbox, turn water into wine, preach convincingly, and even arrange a "resurrection"?

Since all of that could be done by any competent supernatural being of great power, what is there to insure that Jesus and Satan are not the same being?

One might cite a bible story about Jesus and Satan being in the same place (atop a high mountain), but there were no known witnesses and there is no such mountain (from which all kingdoms of the Earth can be seen from a single point on a sphere). Thus, Satan could well have made up such a story (and in the role of Jesus, tell followers that it had happened – or have them informed by another source).

Couldn't ALL the events attributed to Jesus or God be the actions of a "Satan"? How can one tell for sure which supernatural entity produced what effects?

Couldn't "Satan" arrange for the bible to be written by worshipers / followers / believers? How can anyone be certain that they are not worshiping Satan.

What would be Satan's motivation to create a Jesus character and play the role of "the son of god"? EGO and a desire to be worshipped.

Atheist · Post 2: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Could Jesus be Satan?

Absurdism · Post 3: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:51 am Post subject:

I don't think Jesus and Satan could be one in the same entity, In the only Jesus stories I am familiar with Jesus never claimed to be God, he only ever referred to himself as "The son of man" and God as his father, most prayers refer to God as father. The stories surrounding Satan/ Lucifer all indicate a desire to be recognized and worshiped as God's equivalent I don't think it would be in his character to mask those desires with the humility that Jesus is said to have.

Although, that said it would have worked out nicely for him if it was true, imagine the carnage he could wreak on the world for millenia with absolute dogma and more than a few good men...erm.. followers. icon_2gun

Bard · Post 4: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:30 am Post subject:

Atheist · Post 5: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:

Ah. That made me smile so much.

Satan isn't the equivalent of God in any Biblical proportion, being an archangel at best, according at least to the Catholic dogma I had growing up. (Weeee) Angels definitely have "powers" of a miraculous nature, just read how they usually appear. One could almost certainly recreate convincingly the miracles or illusions-of-miracles in line with that which JC reportedly managed. I mean, even if not, Satan can and has appeared on Earth, according to the Bible, and he's certainly, as the "Prince of Lies" pull a David Blaine on the primitive people of ancient... yore? How long is yore?

Sarcasm aside, if one were to look at some of the things done in the name of Christ, the scale of the atrocities compared to, well, everything else. The number of horrible things done in the name of Christianity over the years is pretty awful, though I can't say honestly I'm sure it's by-the-numbers worse than any other religion, I sure hope it is, because otherwise... yikes. If you were the Devil, and you wanted to wreak a lasting and horrible blight on mankind, one that can arguably (mighty concessionary, that. Oh wow, that's a word!) be linked to millions of deaths, child molestation, wars of every variety, cultural rape and forced conversion, witch hangings (no witches actually burned at Salem, I read in an Uncle John's Bathroom Reader once... Ok, that's a lame source. I'm going with it, though.) Crusades, and etc, etc, etc. I'm cutting the length of the usual rhetoric short on that front, but you get the picture.

It's a tough sell, I think, because of the scope and.. uh... success of it all from that point of view. I mean, there are arguments for Christianity's success as a force for good in the world, but in terms of really horrible plans, couldn't that be one?

Of course, so too could be atheism, which would damn the millions of souls repeatedly and unrepentantly rejecting the not-at-all strict dogma(s, no sense denying that there are multiple dogmas in contentions) of Christ's church(es).

Post 6: Fri Nov 07, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: could be

Jesus could be whatever you want to make him out to be, since we know very little of him.

On the other hand, I have often contended that Paul's visitation on the Road to Damascus was from a devil and not from God. I say this because from Paul's visitation arose the very evil that Jesus reapeatedly predicted to his actual disciples.
Perhaps it is Paul who is the anti-Christ.

Absurdism · Post 7: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject:

It would appear for literary purposes that Satan/Lucifer is the shadow side of Jesus. Jesus having achieved everything Satan strove for and failed to achieve. If you look at the stories of Jesus and Satan as a story, legend, myth whatever it makes a complete and profound statement. If you look at the Jesus/ Satan stories as absolute fact and unquestionable dogma, then the thought that Jesus and Satan have anything remotely resembling common characteristics is abhorrent.
As for being one in the same physical being, no, I think they are separate sides of the same story. In order for Jesus' story to be told there had to be an absolute evil to put him up against, likewise in order for Satan's story to be told he had to have an absolute holy to oppose him. Every Superhero needs a Villain, the superhero is not the villain.

on a lighter side here's a link:
http://www.godandscience.org/humor/jesusvssatan.html

Bard · Post 8: Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:09 am Post subject:

Absurdism · Post 9: Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject:

Agnostic · Post 10: Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject:

I'm surprised that no Christian has yet come in and quoted this scripture:

Matt 12:25
He knew what they were thinking and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself is destroyed, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

It's usually the scripture used to argue that Jesus cannot be Satan, because that would mean Christianity would no longer exist as it would have destroyed itself years ago. They further argue that Satan only wants evil so nobody would be doing good works in his name.

Of course that argument is easily refuted if you consider that maybe Satan only wants us to think Christianiy is good. It may be that the real God is another God and that by following Christianity you might be condemning yourself. I'm sure Muslims would agree on that one.