Objections to a new film.

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Rose2020
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Objections to a new film.

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Post by Rose2020 »

A new film is causing protests by Muslims. A cinema in Birmingham has had to cancel showings.

I know nothing at all about the film but I have to say, that although I do not agree with violence of any kind, I have long had respect for Islam and it's people. The moment anyone even thinks about insulting their religion, they react very strongly and will not let anyone get away with it. The same with Sikhs, just let anyone speak badly or portray their gurus with disrespect. They come out in force as one. Because they value their religion and God.

In contrast, we Christians do very little as far as I can see, though I may be wrong? The precious name and character of Jesus Christ is dragged through dirt, pilloried, used as a swearword freely - in films and in life. Jesus is synonymous with bad language. It is curious.

I do wonder what it is in this latest film that has Muslims so enraged? I do hope it is not terribly insulting to their beliefs. It could be that any portrayal of their religion in any way is the problem. In which case why would the writers, actors and producers risk it?

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Re: Objections to a new film.

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Post by Wootah »

Purple Knight wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:21 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:54 amIn contrast, we Christians do very little as far as I can see, though I may be wrong? The precious name and character of Jesus Christ is dragged through dirt, pilloried, used as a swearword freely - in films and in life. Jesus is synonymous with bad language. It is curious.
Well it's why you can live in a pluralistic society that has many different value systems all coexisting and nobody poops their pants. It's why you can live amongst us atheists peacefully.

But ultimately I agree. I think if Christians had the same value of their beliefs as Muslims they would do something. Should do something. I'm not telling anyone to turn terrorist but at the same time I can't ask that people ignore their own ideas of what is right and wrong rather than stand up for them.

Now, I am pro-choice, but those people who blow up Planned Parenthood are morally right. They're morally in the right because they think it's murder. They are defending people they see as people from being murdered, so force is moral.

This is why a pluralistic society is a bad idea. You can't have multiple value systems all regarded as correct, or you're asking everyone to ignore the idea of right and wrong and just accept whatever happens as justice.
Not sure if all the aborted babies think atheists are peaceful but I guess we will never know. But yes pluralistic societies don't exist.
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Re: Objections to a new film.

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Post by Clownboat »

Wootah wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:15 pm
Purple Knight wrote: Sun Jun 12, 2022 8:21 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 10:54 amIn contrast, we Christians do very little as far as I can see, though I may be wrong? The precious name and character of Jesus Christ is dragged through dirt, pilloried, used as a swearword freely - in films and in life. Jesus is synonymous with bad language. It is curious.
Well it's why you can live in a pluralistic society that has many different value systems all coexisting and nobody poops their pants. It's why you can live amongst us atheists peacefully.

But ultimately I agree. I think if Christians had the same value of their beliefs as Muslims they would do something. Should do something. I'm not telling anyone to turn terrorist but at the same time I can't ask that people ignore their own ideas of what is right and wrong rather than stand up for them.

Now, I am pro-choice, but those people who blow up Planned Parenthood are morally right. They're morally in the right because they think it's murder. They are defending people they see as people from being murdered, so force is moral.

This is why a pluralistic society is a bad idea. You can't have multiple value systems all regarded as correct, or you're asking everyone to ignore the idea of right and wrong and just accept whatever happens as justice.
Not sure if all the aborted babies think atheists are peaceful but I guess we will never know. But yes pluralistic societies don't exist.
Atheists abort babies? Your hatred runs deep and clouds your reasoning. I say this because factually, more babies naturally abort then are aborted by humans (yup, humans, even human Christians have abortions). This would make creator god concepts the biggest abortioners of all ironically.
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Re: Objections to a new film.

Post #13

Post by Purple Knight »

Wootah wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:15 pmNot sure if all the aborted babies think atheists are peaceful but I guess we will never know. But yes pluralistic societies don't exist.
That's kind of at the heart of what I'm getting at. You think a fetus is a person because it has a soul. I don't think it's a person because it isn't sentient and conscious. There is no peaceful resolution to this because if I were a female and I had one in my body uninvited, I think I can kick it out and you think you can defend it with force because I'm murdering it.

The American Way is pluralistic. It says everybody is right in this scenario. But that only holds as long as nobody actually stands up for what they think is right.

You can have a pluralistic society but it has to be passive and accept whatever happens as justice. In other words, it invites tyranny and is fundamentally an unstable equilibrium that cannot persist.

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Re: Objections to a new film.

Post #14

Post by Inquirer »

Purple Knight wrote: Wed Jun 22, 2022 5:02 pm
Inquirer wrote: Mon Jun 20, 2022 2:31 pmSuch fanatical Muslims must be resisted.
Why? They think they're standing up for what is right. And of these Western values you speak of, exalting people who boldly do so even if society disagrees is first among them.

If you want a pluralistic society, you want people who ignore their own personal ideas of right and wrong and never stand up for them. IMO that's terrible. That's a terrible society to have. And I think it's fine to have a society where we believe gay people don't need to be beheaded and cartoonists should be able to draw whatever they want, but it can't be pluralistic. Not everyone's idea of right and wrong can be correct.
There are huge numbers of Muslims living in the West who openly call for the execution of cartoonists and homosexuals, have you ever actually lived in a Muslim dominated town? I have and I can tell you (and show volumes of evidence) how the intolerance leads to an erosion and destruction of everything many here take for granted.

Do we have a right to resist social changes that are reducing our quality of life or do we have a duty to roll over and accept them?

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Re: Objections to a new film.

Post #15

Post by Purple Knight »

Inquirer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:35 amThere are huge numbers of Muslims living in the West who openly call for the execution of cartoonists and homosexuals, have you ever actually lived in a Muslim dominated town? I have and I can tell you (and show volumes of evidence) how the intolerance leads to an erosion and destruction of everything many here take for granted.
But they think they are standing up for what's right. That's the very first Western value, to do that, even and especially if society disagrees.
Inquirer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:35 amDo we have a right to resist social changes that are reducing our quality of life or do we have a duty to roll over and accept them?
As it stands, no. We have no right to resist any of this as a society built on tolerance first, as a society built on pluralism, as a society that wants to believe that you're right no matter what you think is right.

It's fine to have a society that believes you don't execute cartoonists or homosexuals. But it's not a tolerant one. It's intolerant of people who believe differently - intolerant of people who believe executing cartoonists is right. It's no better and no worse than the radical Muslim society, though I admit I would rather live where it is not tolerated to execute cartoonists.

It's this banner of having some moral high ground in tolerating everything, pretending that everything is right, that kills.

The Western world actually does have things it believes and that's fine. It's exactly as fine as theocracies having things that they believe. If it refuses to say so it will die.

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Re: Objections to a new film.

Post #16

Post by Inquirer »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:52 pm
Inquirer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:35 amThere are huge numbers of Muslims living in the West who openly call for the execution of cartoonists and homosexuals, have you ever actually lived in a Muslim dominated town? I have and I can tell you (and show volumes of evidence) how the intolerance leads to an erosion and destruction of everything many here take for granted.
But they think they are standing up for what's right. That's the very first Western value, to do that, even and especially if society disagrees.
Inquirer wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 11:35 amDo we have a right to resist social changes that are reducing our quality of life or do we have a duty to roll over and accept them?
As it stands, no. We have no right to resist any of this as a society built on tolerance first, as a society built on pluralism, as a society that wants to believe that you're right no matter what you think is right.
I disagree, we do have a right, we have the right to protest and we have the right to elect people who feel will further our interests.
Purple Knight wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:52 pm It's fine to have a society that believes you don't execute cartoonists or homosexuals. But it's not a tolerant one. It's intolerant of people who believe differently - intolerant of people who believe executing cartoonists is right. It's no better and no worse than the radical Muslim society, though I admit I would rather live where it is not tolerated to execute cartoonists.
Well if you're willing to tolerate such medieval practices you'll soon run out of places to live.
Purple Knight wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 1:52 pm It's this banner of having some moral high ground in tolerating everything, pretending that everything is right, that kills.

The Western world actually does have things it believes and that's fine. It's exactly as fine as theocracies having things that they believe. If it refuses to say so it will die.
Well my remarks were specifically about the attitudes of certain Muslims and how they undermine our established western values.

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Re: Objections to a new film.

Post #17

Post by Tcg »

Clownboat wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:00 am Atheists abort babies? Your hatred runs deep and clouds your reasoning. I say this because factually, more babies naturally abort then are aborted by humans (yup, humans, even human Christians have abortions). This would make creator god concepts the biggest abortioners of all ironically.
Not only that, but according to recent Pew Research Center findings, 11% of atheists think that abortion should be illegal in all/most cases: https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/re ... -abortion/ It gets tiring to see misinformation presented concerning atheists when it is so easy to do a 10 second search and find the truth.

Another study shows that 24% of women who have abortions are Catholic and 27% of women in the U.S. who have abortions identify as evangelical Protestants: https://www.americamagazine.org/politic ... -women-why Again a 10 second search revealed this reality.


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