Haiti and "Acts of God"

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DeBunkem
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Haiti and "Acts of God"

Post #1

Post by DeBunkem »

This at PFAW.org:


Just when you thought that Pat Robertson had said it all, he goes further. As you know, an earthquake hit Haiti yesterday, destroying much of its capital and killing thousands of people.
What did Pat Robertson do? He blamed the victims:

And you know Kristi, something happened a long time ago in Haiti and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French, uh you know Napoleon the third and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the Devil. They said we will serve you if you'll get us free from the French. True Story. And so the Devil said "OK, it's a deal." And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since, they have been cursed by one thing after the other.
This is something a typical Confederate preacher would have said before their defeat by our troops. They would have been much more rabidly vindictive, since their richer patrons counted on slave labor for a huge profit. When Toussant L' Overture led a Slave rebellion, the South nearly went apopleptic. It began to haunt their dreams, and abuse of slaves increased.
One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If
we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject
any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer
interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has
captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge
-- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous:
Carl Sagan

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Post #11

Post by McCulloch »

Moderator Reminder

Please review the Rules. 8. Extensive quotes from another source (particularly other websites) should state the source to avoid plagiarism.
asp59 wrote:
[center]IS GOD RESPONSIBLE FOR NATURAL DISASTERS?[/center]
[center]
Broken Hearts, Shattered Faith[/center]

[...]
This entire post appears to be from http://www.watchtower.org/e/200709/article_02.htm Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site. Copyright © 2008 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. All rights reserved.

When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #12

Post by DeBunkem »

According to the watchtower, God will "soon" send out his invisible "Field Marshal" jesus AKA Michael to wipe out 99%+ of the human race, mainly those who are not JW's. That sounds like a pretty warped way to deal with social problems. Your "Booze" Rutherford said "millions now living will never die" in the 1920's. Just another big eschatological flop, like all of the watchtower predictions. "Jehovah" hasn't intervened because Myths are non-existent. If he were real, he seems to prefer mass extinctions to rational interventions. The history of his own little OT tyranny : The divided, bickering tinpot dictators of judea and samaria...(oy vey!) shows his way of rule is no better than any other, and failed spectacularly.

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Post #13

Post by DeBunkem »

This entire post appears to be from http://www.watchtower.org/e/200709/article_02.htm Jehovah's Witnesses Official Web Site. Copyright © 2008 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. All rights reserved.


You don't understand the mentality, Mod. I do. The rank and file JW mind and the writings of their Brooklyn masters are one and the same, word for word. They do not test or engage in critical thinking concerning whatever emerges from the watchtower. they always refer to this cant as "the TRUTH" even when it makes a 180 degree turn. They refer these as "new" truth, and even throw in such analogies as a sailboat that must tack against the wind. But they aren't any dumber than any other religious fundamentalists, and there are more XJW's than "sheep," as they call themselves.

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Post #14

Post by McCulloch »

Moderator Comment
DeBunkem wrote: You don't understand the mentality, Mod. I do.
May I submit that no one fully understands another person's mentality. Please refrain from making superhuman claims about yourself.
DeBunkem wrote: The rank and file JW mind and the writings of their Brooklyn masters are one and the same, word for word. They do not test or engage in critical thinking concerning whatever emerges from the watchtower.
The Moderating Reminder was not in relation to the debater's critical thinking skills nor with regards to the aptness of this material. That is properly the domain of the debaters. I was simply pointing out that the material presented by asp59 in his post was not his original material but material copied from a copyrighted site without any citation or attribution indicating where the material was sourced from.

When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #15

Post by DeBunkem »

McCulloch wrote:Moderator Comment
DeBunkem wrote: You don't understand the mentality, Mod. I do.
May I submit that no one fully understands another person's mentality. Please refrain from making superhuman claims about yourself.
DeBunkem wrote: The rank and file JW mind and the writings of their Brooklyn masters are one and the same, word for word. They do not test or engage in critical thinking concerning whatever emerges from the watchtower.
The Moderating Reminder was not in relation to the debater's critical thinking skills nor with regards to the aptness of this material. That is properly the domain of the debaters. I was simply pointing out that the material presented by asp59 in his post was not his original material but material copied from a copyrighted site without any citation or attribution indicating where the material was sourced from.

When the moderators feel the rules have been violated, a notice will frequently occur within the thread where the violation occurred, pointing out the violation and perhaps providing other moderator comments. Moderator warnings and comments are made publicly, within the thread, so that all members may see when and how the rules are being interpreted and enforced. However, note that any challenges or replies to moderator comments or warnings should be made via Private Message. This is so that threads do not get derailed into discussions about the rules.
Please excuse the inappropriate reference to your cautionary notice. Not cricket and appears that we are ganging up on the participant. My comments were not directed at him/her personally but at the fundamentalist mentality. Having spent almost 30 years as a JW, and read the book "Crisis of Conscience," by Ray Franz, an XJW who was one of the Brooklyn "Governing Body," I can testify aout this mindset in general, but read nobody's thinking in particular. Again, they are as intelligent as the rest of the population. Stupid people could not even keep up with the convoluted, ever-changing contortions of doctrinal spin put out by the watchtower. The plethora of XJWs evidences that an average number keep their ability to think critically.

lorene

Post #16

Post by lorene »

Is this even remotely true? A Christian distortion of Haiti’s African diasporic religion? Salon.com speaks with Andrew Apter, professor of history and anthropology at UCLA, who provides some clarity on the matter.

“Part of the revolution mythology is that one of the revolution leaders sacrificed a pig in Bois Caïmin in a voodoo ceremony and made a contract with Petwo [Haitian voodoo spirits]. It may or may not be true, but to call that a pact with the devil is a gross misrepresentation of what voodoo is. It’s about anything but the devil. He’s imposing an evangelical religious order on a much more sophisticated practice, and he’s turning it into a cheap invocation of Satanism. This is hate speech. It’s saying these people are damned.�
This is false.

'Jean Lafitte'...simple study clears up those misunderstandings...if he is to be believed.

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Post #17

Post by JoeyKnothead »

lorene wrote:
Is this even remotely true? A Christian distortion of Haiti’s African diasporic religion? Salon.com speaks with Andrew Apter, professor of history and anthropology at UCLA, who provides some clarity on the matter.

“Part of the revolution mythology is that one of the revolution leaders sacrificed a pig in Bois Caïmin in a voodoo ceremony and made a contract with Petwo [Haitian voodoo spirits]. It may or may not be true, but to call that a pact with the devil is a gross misrepresentation of what voodoo is. It’s about anything but the devil. He’s imposing an evangelical religious order on a much more sophisticated practice, and he’s turning it into a cheap invocation of Satanism. This is hate speech. It’s saying these people are damned.�
This is false.

'Jean Lafitte'...simple study clears up those misunderstandings...if he is to be believed.
'Parently the ability to engage in "simple study" passed me by. I went to Wikipedia and all I found was a pirate, some cities and a national park. Google wasn't much help either, in light of a lack of information regarding this 'Jean Lafitte' angle.

Care to help a dolt out here and offer up some means to understand your post? Why should we believe this 'Jean Lafitte' angle, as you yourself indicate there may be issues with it?

lorene

Post #18

Post by lorene »

joeyknuccione[quote] wrote:['Parently the ability to engage in "simple study" passed me by.
parently...
I went to Wikipedia and all I found was a pirate, some cities and a national park. Google wasn't much help either, in light of a lack of information regarding this 'Jean Lafitte' angle.
Go with the pirate...always, go with the pirate, man.
Care to help a dolt out here and offer up some means to understand your post? Why should we believe this 'Jean Lafitte' angle, as you yourself indicate there may be issues with it?
Can a pirate be believed?

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Post #19

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From Post 18:
lorene wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote: 'Parently the ability to engage in "simple study" passed me by.
parently...
LOL I earned every pixel of that.
lorene wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote: I went to Wikipedia and all I found was a pirate, some cities and a national park. Google wasn't much help either, in light of a lack of information regarding this 'Jean Lafitte' angle.
Go with the pirate...always, go with the pirate, man.
Where're we headed?
lorene wrote:
joeyknuccione wrote: Care to help a dolt out here and offer up some means to understand your post? Why should we believe this 'Jean Lafitte' angle, as you yourself indicate there may be issues with it?
Can a pirate be believed?
I'm lost as a cow at a square dance.

Could you please explain the following:
Is this even remotely true? A Christian distortion of Haiti’s African diasporic religion? Salon.com speaks with Andrew Apter, professor of history and anthropology at UCLA, who provides some clarity on the matter.

“Part of the revolution mythology is that one of the revolution leaders sacrificed a pig in Bois Caïmin in a voodoo ceremony and made a contract with Petwo [Haitian voodoo spirits]. It may or may not be true, but to call that a pact with the devil is a gross misrepresentation of what voodoo is. It’s about anything but the devil. He’s imposing an evangelical religious order on a much more sophisticated practice, and he’s turning it into a cheap invocation of Satanism. This is hate speech. It’s saying these people are damned.�
To which you replied:
lorene wrote: This is false.

'Jean Lafitte'...simple study clears up those misunderstandings...if he is to be believed.
What does Jean Lafitte have to do with that whole Haiti and demons deal?

Is it your contention Jean Lafitte has been recartoned as Uncle Pat?

What're you gettin' at?

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Post #20

Post by DeBunkem »

What does Jean Lafitte have to do with that whole Haiti and demons deal?
:drunk: Demon Rum, derived from slave labor in the sugarcane fields of Haiti.

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