Juan Williams fired by NPR

[cnorman18]

The well-known TV and radio pundit, Juan Williams, was fired by National Public Radio for remarks he made on Bill O'Reilly's show, which appears on the Fox network. The result has been a firestorm of criticism and defense of NPR's action. I'd give a link, but there are dozens; Google "Juan Williams NPR" and you'll see a bunch. NPR's own blog, here, is good for getting a sense of the issues and the debate.

It's my opinion that Williams did nothing whatever wrong; he was giving commentary on the Fox show, not reporting the news, and his remarks were hardly racist or inflammatory anyway. It appears that NPR has gone over the top for enforcing political correctness and stifling freedom of speech, even when that speech is wholly reasonable and within the bounds of legitimate debate. It should be noted that Williams appeared on Fox as a liberal, not a conservative, and that he went on to make other remarks that were entirely reasonable and temperate.

Questions for debate:

Given that NPR is a taxpayer-funded organization, was it within its rights to fire Williams for his rather moderate display of ordinary personal honesty?

Would that have been a reasonable decision and action, if NPR were NOT publicly funded?

Should NPR's public funding continue?

Williams claims that NPR had been looking for a reason to fire him because of his affiliation with Fox. Is that probable? Would it be justified, if true?

[Goat]

Well, let's modify the statement just a tad. How would you feel about it if FOX started talking about the Jewish issue, and uneasiness when in Hasidim dress or someone wearing a yarmulka got on a plane?

It's not like NPR hadn't gotten complaints about Juan William even before this.

[cnorman18]

Well, let's modify the statement just a tad. How would you feel about it if FOX started talking about the Jewish issue, and uneasiness when in Hasidim dress or someone wearing a yarmulka got on a plane?

If Hasids had been involved in a few thousand terrorist attacks, I'd think it quite reasonable and even predictable. I'd probably feel the same way myself.

Williams, as many, many others have said, was only observing something that he felt, even though he himself recognized that it was not entirely rational or justifiable. Are we all forbidden to even DISCUSS such facts? How do we talk about the ill effects of prejudice and fear if we're not even allowed to refer to their existence?

It's not like NPR hadn't gotten complaints about Juan William even before this.

What "complaints"? Were they justified?

Do we silence people because they don't agree with us -- on a taxpayer-funded radio network? If Fox or MSNBC wants to be biased to the point of being wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Republican and Democratic parties, as they virtually are, I have no problem with that; they are privately-owned companies and responsible to no one but their shareholders. But I would expect NPR to be absolutely pristine and scrupulously vigilant about removing even the appearance of bias.

[Goat]

Well, let's modify the statement just a tad. How would you feel about it if FOX started talking about the Jewish issue, and uneasiness when in Hasidim dress or someone wearing a yarmulka got on a plane?

If Hasids had been involved in a few thousand terrorist attacks, I'd think it quite reasonable and even predictable. I'd probably feel the same way myself.

Williams, as many, many others have said, was only observing something that he felt, even though he himself recognized that it was not entirely rational or justifiable. Are we all forbidden to even DISCUSS such facts? How do we talk about the ill effects of prejudice and fear if we're not even allowed to refer to their existence?

It's not like NPR hadn't gotten complaints about Juan William even before this.

What "complaints"? Were they justified?

Do we silence people because they don't agree with us -- on a taxpayer-funded radio network? If Fox or MSNBC wants to be biased to the point of being wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Republican and Democratic parties, as they virtually are, I have no problem with that; they are privately-owned companies and responsible to no one but their shareholders. But I would expect NPR to be absolutely pristine and scrupulously vigilant about removing even the appearance of bias.

I don't know.. obviously, the people who made the complaints thought so. A memo talked about Juan Willams being a 'lightning rod' for complaints existed a full year before this happened.

And, when it comes to certain people, well, you will find complaints about 'zionism', and the accusation that the Jews are indeed terrorists.

The average Muslim is not a terrorist.

[cnorman18]

Well, let's modify the statement just a tad. How would you feel about it if FOX started talking about the Jewish issue, and uneasiness when in Hasidim dress or someone wearing a yarmulka got on a plane?

If Hasids had been involved in a few thousand terrorist attacks, I'd think it quite reasonable and even predictable. I'd probably feel the same way myself.

Williams, as many, many others have said, was only observing something that he felt, even though he himself recognized that it was not entirely rational or justifiable. Are we all forbidden to even DISCUSS such facts? How do we talk about the ill effects of prejudice and fear if we're not even allowed to refer to their existence?

It's not like NPR hadn't gotten complaints about Juan William even before this.

What "complaints"? Were they justified?

Do we silence people because they don't agree with us -- on a taxpayer-funded radio network? If Fox or MSNBC wants to be biased to the point of being wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Republican and Democratic parties, as they virtually are, I have no problem with that; they are privately-owned companies and responsible to no one but their shareholders. But I would expect NPR to be absolutely pristine and scrupulously vigilant about removing even the appearance of bias.

I don't know.. obviously, the people who made the complaints thought so. A memo talked about Juan Willams being a 'lightning rod' for complaints existed a full year before this happened.

Doesn't mean they were VALID or REASONABLE complaints. Williams didn't fall into lockstep with others who expected him to; I've seen that here, on this very forum. I didn't always agree with him, but he was no racist and no ideologue.

And, when it comes to certain people, well, you will find complaints about 'zionism', and the accusation that the Jews are indeed terrorists.

That would be my point; the number, and even the passionate and intense nature, of complaints are irrelevant to their validity. There are literally thousands of websites that are devoted to complaints about the perfidies of the execrable, nefarious Jews. Doesn't make those complaints true. As you may have noticed, I'm involved in a debate with an apparent devotee of such websites as we speak, and that was one of his talking points.

The average Muslim is not a terrorist.

I believe Williams himself said as much, which is why it's over-the-top political-correctness gone berserk to have fired him.

[Goat]

Well, let's modify the statement just a tad. How would you feel about it if FOX started talking about the Jewish issue, and uneasiness when in Hasidim dress or someone wearing a yarmulka got on a plane?

If Hasids had been involved in a few thousand terrorist attacks, I'd think it quite reasonable and even predictable. I'd probably feel the same way myself.

Williams, as many, many others have said, was only observing something that he felt, even though he himself recognized that it was not entirely rational or justifiable. Are we all forbidden to even DISCUSS such facts? How do we talk about the ill effects of prejudice and fear if we're not even allowed to refer to their existence?

It's not like NPR hadn't gotten complaints about Juan William even before this.

What "complaints"? Were they justified?

Do we silence people because they don't agree with us -- on a taxpayer-funded radio network? If Fox or MSNBC wants to be biased to the point of being wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Republican and Democratic parties, as they virtually are, I have no problem with that; they are privately-owned companies and responsible to no one but their shareholders. But I would expect NPR to be absolutely pristine and scrupulously vigilant about removing even the appearance of bias.

I don't know.. obviously, the people who made the complaints thought so. A memo talked about Juan Willams being a 'lightning rod' for complaints existed a full year before this happened.

Doesn't mean they were VALID or REASONABLE complaints. Williams didn't fall into lockstep with others who expected him to; I've seen that here, on this very forum. I didn't always agree with him, but he was no racist and no ideologue.

And, when it comes to certain people, well, you will find complaints about 'zionism', and the accusation that the Jews are indeed terrorists.

That would be my point; the number, and even the passionate and intense nature, of complaints are irrelevant to their validity. There are literally thousands of websites that are devoted to complaints about the perfidies of the execrable, nefarious Jews. Doesn't make those complaints true. As you may have noticed, I'm involved in a debate with an apparent devotee of such websites as we speak, and that was one of his talking points.

The average Muslim is not a terrorist.

I believe Williams himself said as much, which is why it's over-the-top political-correctness gone berserk to have fired him.

What he said 'When get on a plane, and I see people who are in Muslim garb, and identify themselves as first and foremost a Muslim, I get nervous.

What is wrong with identifying yourself as first and foremost a Muslim? What are they doing that Hasidic Jews don't?, or the orthodox that wear yamulkas ??

[cnorman18]

What he said 'When get on a plane, and I see people who are in Muslim garb, and identify themselves as first and foremost a Muslim, I get nervous.

What is wrong with identifying yourself as first and foremost a Muslim? What are they doing that Hasidic Jews don't?, or the orthodox that wear yamulkas ??

Nothing -- but he's talking about a natural human reaction in the light of a few thousand terrorist attacks over the last few decades, the overwhelming majority of which have been carried out by Muslims. You can't make it go away and make everybody UNCONSCIOUS of those attacks.

Here is an article from Slate.com that makes the case that firing Williams was precisely analogous to the firing of Shirley Sherrod, and just as unjustified:

Shirley Sherrod, meet Juan Williams.

Three months ago, right-wingers clipped a video of Sherrod to make her look like a racist. They circulated the video on the Internet, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture fired her.

Now it's happening again. This time, left-wingers have done the editing. They clipped a video of Juan Williams, a commentator for Fox News and NPR, to make him look like an anti-Muslim bigot. They circulated the video on the Internet, and last night, NPR fired him.

According to NPR and the New York Times, the termination of Williams' contract was based on the following comments, delivered by Williams on The O'Reilly Factor Monday night:

"I'm not a bigot. You know the kind of books I've written about the civil rights movement in this country. But when I get on the plane, I got to tell you, if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous. Now, I remember also that when the Times Square bomber was at court, I think this was just last week. He said the war with Muslims, America's war is just beginning, first drop of blood. I don't think there's any way to get away from these facts."

In its statement announcing Williams' termination, NPR said: "His remarks on The O'Reilly Factor this past Monday were inconsistent with our editorial standards and practices, and undermined his credibility as a news analyst with NPR."

The passage quoted by NPR and the Times is a dead ringer for a video clip of Williams, branded and distributed by Think Progress. The clip, which cleverly isolates the offending comment, has circulated among left-wing Web sites, just as the Sherrod clip circulated among right-wing sites. (The Washington Post also directs readers to the clip.) But the full transcript of Williams' appearance on The O'Reilly Factor, like the full video of Sherrod's speech to the NAACP, tells a much more complicated story.

On the program, Williams was responding to host Bill O'Reilly, who had gotten into trouble for comments about Islam and terrorism. In his initial answer, Williams said exactly what the video excerpt shows: that he worries when he sees passengers in Muslim garb, and that the Times Square bomber declared a U.S. war with Muslims.

Williams is right about the bomber. When Faisal Shahzad pled guilty in the Times Square plot, he told the court: "Brace yourselves, because the war with Muslims has just begun. Consider me only a first droplet of the flood that will follow me." That isn't a legitimate basis for judging all Muslims. But it is, as Williams said, a fact. And Williams' confession that he fears religious Muslims isn't necessarily an endorsement of bigotry. Remember what Jesse Jackson said 17 years ago: "There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery—then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved." Sometimes a confession of prejudice is part of a larger reflection on the perils of prejudice. That was true of Sherrod. And it's true of Williams.

The damning video clip of Williams, like the damning clip of Sherrod, cuts off the speaker just as he's about to reverse course. According to the full transcript, immediately after saying, "I don't think there's any way to get away from these facts," Williams continues: "But I think there are people who want to somehow remind us all as President Bush did after 9/11, it's not a war against Islam." That continuation has been conveniently snipped from the excerpt.

A few seconds later, Williams challenges O'Reilly's suggestion that "the Muslims attacked us on 9/11." Williams points out how wrong it would be to generalize similarly about Christians:

"Hold on, because if you said Timothy McVeigh, the Atlanta bomber, these people who are protesting against homosexuality at military funerals—very obnoxious—you don't say first and foremost, "We got a problem with Christians." That's crazy."
Williams reminds O'Reilly that "there are good Muslims." A short while later, O'Reilly asks: "Juan, who is posing a problem in Germany? Is it the Muslims who have come there, or the Germans?" Williams refuses to play the group blame game. "See, you did it again," he tells O'Reilly. "It's extremists."

Williams warns O'Reilly that televised statements about Muslims as a group can foment bigotry and violence. "The other day in New York, some guy cuts a Muslim cabby's neck," Williams reminds him. "Or you think about the protest at the mosque near Ground Zero … We don't want, in America, people to have their rights violated, to be attacked on the street because they heard rhetoric from Bill O'Reilly."

I'm not saying Williams is the world's most enlightened guy. He's wrong, for example, about the proposed Islamic Center near Ground Zero. And it's certainly unsettling to hear him admit that he worries when he sees Muslims in distinctive dress. But admitting such fears doesn't make you a bigot. Sometimes, to work through your fears, you have to face them honestly. You have to think through the perils of acting on those fears. And you have to explain to others why they, too, should transcend their anxieties or resentments and treat people as individuals.

That's what Shirley Sherrod did in her speech to the NAACP. It's what Juan Williams did in his interview on Fox News. It was wrong of conservatives to take Sherrod's remarks out of context. It's just as wrong of liberals to do the same to Williams. The USDA, after reviewing Sherrod's remarks in their entirety, offered to rehire her. Now it's your turn, NPR.

[nogods]

It is my understanding Juan's contract with NPR doesn't allow him to freelance his opinions to other networks. He was also given multiple warnings prior to termination.
When I get on a plane with someone in Muslim garb, I don't get nervous because real terrorists try to blend in.

[Guest]

When I get on a plane with someone in Muslim garb, I don't get nervous because real terrorists try to blend in.

Or so they would like you to think. Thats why terrorists are called terrorists. They strike without warning and KNOW the weak point. And there is ALWAYS a weak point.