Kicking the Koran.

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:57 am

Why or how could a (or The) Supreme Being be offended if words printed and bound into a book get mistreated?

Why does the press and why do the worlds governments allow such outrage and viloence by adherents of Islam over trivial and physically harmless actions?

Why not legislate Islam the way Christianity is treated worldwide?

Don't people who insult and denigrate religion have a "right" to do so.

Is this not right?

Nyril · Post by **Nyril** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:30 am

Why or how could a (or The) Supreme Being be offended if words printed and bound into a book get mistreated?

The matter of the being isn't relevant, what matters is people that are easily excited by these sorts of things.

Why does the press and why do the worlds governments allow such outrage and viloence by adherents of Islam over trivial and physically harmless actions?

Trivial? If I got myself a nice pile of KJV bibles, had myself a little bit of a piss on them, and then lit them (with the aide of lighter fluid, I understand soggy paper doesn't burn well) as a means to show what I think of organized religion, people would be angry. If I then went out of my way, to capture baptists with bibles, take them, and made them watch as I did this because I was specifically insulting them, there would be riots.

These people think we're waging a religious war against them, and it scares them, and the government hasn't even tried to deny it. They certainly make the appropriate mouth movements when they're thinking about it, but then Bush calls it a holy war, or our prisoners capture them and blaspheme their religion, and nobody believes us.[/b]

QED · Post by **QED** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:04 am

I can't help but read it as anything but insecurity myself. If ones faith is sufficiently robust then what reason is there to make such a fuss. The only charge that should be permissable is damage to property. If we ascribe special values to spiritual content how do we go about measuring it? And how would we decide who deserves it? It certainly can't be left to individual faiths to decide their own arbitrary values.

Perhaps as part of my Soltheistic beliefs I might regard my shadow as sacrosanct so inciting me to riot whenever others tread on it.

Amphigorey · Post by **Amphigorey** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 4:37 pm

In America, Andres Serrano's "Piss Christ" created quite a flap and was unfortunately used by conservatives to slash Federal funding for the arts. Some very touchy fundies were upset by denigrating a little plastic crucifix, and our national funding for the arts suffered as a result.

Every religion has some set of objects considered sacred or valuable beyond their physical worth. Its amazing that believers in faith X point at believers in faith Y's notions of sacredness as if its unique or out of proportion.

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:23 pm

I have read that to Muslims, the Qu'ran is as sacred as Jesus is to Christians. Of course it seems weird to me that they should get incensed about a book (especially when real people are being abused--and particularly women are routinely abused in most of the Middle-East). But I know they see things differently, much as I would like to convert them to my belief that people are more important than books. So their reaction didn't surprise me.

AlAyeti · Post by **AlAyeti** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:44 am

"Fundies" I love that epithet.

For atheists would we use "empties?" They come from nothing and are heading to emptiness right?

"Quite a flap" does not equal beheadings, high jacking aircraft and crashing them into New York sky scrapers killing thousands of more innocent people.

Good comparison, the unbelievably insulting piece of art work about the symbol of worship to Christians, to someone simply kicking the Koran or some other harmless denigration of Islamic valued items.

Why does the world tolerate the intensity of violence from Islamists when insulting anything religious, amounts to freedom of speech to the detractors. Christianity has never been able to have a moments peace from skeptics and atheists since the "so called" enlightenment period in history?

Jihad doesn't exist anywhere in the Gospels or anywhere else in the New Testament. For example, Christians want to have their children protected in schools from sexual perversion and they are labeled bigots and simply take the issue to court. Muslims shoot to death Doctors and Nurses in a clinic and the "underground evangelists" got what they deserved.

Why does the world behave like this?

Amphigorey · Post by **Amphigorey** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:21 am

Al you've described your own beliefs as fundamentalist in another post on this board. I'm sorry if you took offense at my use of an abreviated form of that word. And I certainly wasn't trying to defend that example of hostile bad art and wasted Federal tax dollars! If the politicians are mismanaging their programs, maybe they deserve the slashed budgets they get.

Dilettante · Post by **Dilettante** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:10 am

AlAyeti wrote:

Good comparison, the unbelievably insulting piece of art work about the symbol of worship to Christians, to someone simply kicking the Koran or some other harmless denigration of Islamic valued items.

Except that, for Muslims, putting the Koran in the toilet is, apparently, very bit as unbelievably insulting.

Christianity has never been able to have a moments peace from skeptics and atheists since the "so called" enlightenment period in history?

The Enlightenment period wasn't perfect, but on the whole, it has done Christianity good to be intellectually challenged. I wish there was an Islamic Enlightenement soon.

axeplayer · Post by **axeplayer** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:22 pm

Why or how could a (or The) Supreme Being be offended if words printed and bound into a book get mistreated?

are you referring to what happened recently in GTMO (i think thats where it was) where the American guards allegedly flushed the Koran down the toilet? (if thats not what your talking about, then disregaurd this post). It actually wasn't the American guards who did this. One of the Iraqi prisoners tore pages out of the Koran and flushed them down the toilet in an attempt to clog the toilet and flood the room. (this was an act of rebellion by the Iraqi prisoner.)

USIncognito · Post by **USIncognito** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:57 am

While I think peeing on holy books and flushing them (or pages of them) down the toilet is, at the very least declasse, I hate to admit that I still get a chuckle out of the image of a German Sheppard carrying a Koran in it's mouth to a Gitmo, etc. prisoner.

I guess the Simpsons episode with Homer and the Stonecutters/Sacred Parchment taints my ability to not find humor in someone getting upset over such a trivial issue... at least in terms of the grand scheme of things.