Why or how could a (or The) Supreme Being be offended if words printed and bound into a book get mistreated?
Why does the press and why do the worlds governments allow such outrage and viloence by adherents of Islam over trivial and physically harmless actions?
Why not legislate Islam the way Christianity is treated worldwide?
Don't people who insult and denigrate religion have a "right" to do so.
Is this not right?
Kicking the Koran.
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Dilettante
- Sage
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Post #11
axeplayer wrote:
Do you know this for a fact?
USIncognito wrote:
It actually wasn't the American guards who did this.
Do you know this for a fact?
USIncognito wrote:
I agree that from an outsider's point of view the incident does not look as important, but it's not a trivial issue for Muslims. Maybe we should try to convince them that is isn't, although I don't see how.I guess the Simpsons episode with Homer and the Stonecutters/Sacred Parchment taints my ability to not find humor in someone getting upset over such a trivial issue
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USIncognito
- Apprentice
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Post #12
I actually don't think there's as much of a disconnect as would seem. While I just rolled my eyes when I heard about the riots in Afghanistan (or was it Pakistan) about the Koran desecration reports, I have seem similar responses in the West to Christian symbols, even if Christians don't venerate the Bible similarly.Dilettante wrote:I agree that from an outsider's point of view the incident does not look as important, but it's not a trivial issue for Muslims. Maybe we should try to convince them that is isn't, although I don't see how.
There has been "artwork" (and I've seen some cool stuff from Andres Soreano, but Piss Christ was stupid IMO) that has enraged Catholics, while not to riot, certainly to protest. I also remember a season of Survivor where a contestant had brought his Bible, and yet it was unthinkable to use pages as toilet paper. That same attitude exists in the West, just is a bit more muted.
As far as convincing people of the triviality? Man, I just don't know. If someone firebombed the shrine housing the Dead Sea Scrolls, threw acid on an original copy of the Declaration, or smashed clay tablet copies of Gilgamesh I'd be hysteric. Those cannot be replaced. But a copy of a book with literally billions of copies in print? I just can't relate to that...
Post #13
There are certainly a whole host of similar examples one could cite.
Flag-burning.
Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
Even evolution, the teaching of which some consider akin to desecrating the Bible.
To purposefully insult a person or group by showing disrespect to an object, symbol, etc., especially if there is no other purpose for the act, I think is wrong and stupid. For Christians, this would be discussed in Romans chapter 14, where the context is dietary laws, holy days, etc. but the application is the same. One should act for the benefit and not the detriment of ones brother.
Flag-burning.
Mel Gibson's "The Passion"
Even evolution, the teaching of which some consider akin to desecrating the Bible.
To purposefully insult a person or group by showing disrespect to an object, symbol, etc., especially if there is no other purpose for the act, I think is wrong and stupid. For Christians, this would be discussed in Romans chapter 14, where the context is dietary laws, holy days, etc. but the application is the same. One should act for the benefit and not the detriment of ones brother.
Post #14
And this is where it gets murky... If I feel that my brother is harming himself by becoming distracted, should I be prevented from 'kicking' the object of his distraction?micatala wrote: One should act for the benefit and not the detriment of ones brother.
Post #15
This is a good question. I'm having a hard time thinking of a good answer without saying 'it depends.'
Certainly, if someone is using the Koran in such a way as to produce harm to others or himself, it is not necessarily a bad thing to take issue with his or her use of the Koran. It seems to me one could do this in a way that would not be seen as overtly provocative or insulting. I would attempt to be clear between the issues that relate to the Koran itself, and the issues related to the individuals use of the Koran.
This is a little different than feeling that the Koran itself is worthy of derision.
In either case, I would say that if the action taken could reasonably be perceived as extremely provocative or insulting, I would not think it justified unless all other 'reasonable' means had already been taken to rectify the perceived problem. I would also say that if one does not have a reasonable expectation that the action taken could have beneficial results, than it is not justified. If there is little or no possibility of a 'good' result and a very high probability of offense and subsequent consequences, then it seems to me the 'kicking' should be avoided.
Obviously there is a lot of ambiguity when you are dealing with people's probable or possible perceptions and reactions based on these perceptions. Who would have really predicted or expected the riots that occurred based on the 'reported Koran flushing incident?' My understanding is that the Times even cleared this story through the Pentagon before publishing, and the Pentagon did not object to it.
Certainly, if someone is using the Koran in such a way as to produce harm to others or himself, it is not necessarily a bad thing to take issue with his or her use of the Koran. It seems to me one could do this in a way that would not be seen as overtly provocative or insulting. I would attempt to be clear between the issues that relate to the Koran itself, and the issues related to the individuals use of the Koran.
This is a little different than feeling that the Koran itself is worthy of derision.
In either case, I would say that if the action taken could reasonably be perceived as extremely provocative or insulting, I would not think it justified unless all other 'reasonable' means had already been taken to rectify the perceived problem. I would also say that if one does not have a reasonable expectation that the action taken could have beneficial results, than it is not justified. If there is little or no possibility of a 'good' result and a very high probability of offense and subsequent consequences, then it seems to me the 'kicking' should be avoided.
Obviously there is a lot of ambiguity when you are dealing with people's probable or possible perceptions and reactions based on these perceptions. Who would have really predicted or expected the riots that occurred based on the 'reported Koran flushing incident?' My understanding is that the Times even cleared this story through the Pentagon before publishing, and the Pentagon did not object to it.
Religion is what you make of it
Post #16Doesn't matter what you believe, I'm sure serial killers think they are doing what is right.
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snappyanswer
- Student
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Post #17
Christians should stop caring about gay politics and Muslim violence and just go out there like they don't exist. People will follow the gospel and leave those things behind if they hear the word.
Post #18
I think I agree with you.
I would certainly say that Christians can do more good by serving others, showing love to all, and sharing the uplifting aspects of the Christian message than by disparaging other religions as 'wrong' or 'evil' or by castigating people for their sins.
After, all the Bible says we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. If we are going to criticize other's behavior, we should at least do it respectfully, and with the acknowledgment that we ourselves are imperfect.
I would certainly say that Christians can do more good by serving others, showing love to all, and sharing the uplifting aspects of the Christian message than by disparaging other religions as 'wrong' or 'evil' or by castigating people for their sins.
After, all the Bible says we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. If we are going to criticize other's behavior, we should at least do it respectfully, and with the acknowledgment that we ourselves are imperfect.
