Some 240 tornadoes touched down over 3 days, 45 people were killed, homes destroyed etc. If you havent seen the news, it was a huge event we typically see 100 tornadoes in the month of April... the whole month.
Anyway, the debate topic:
If God creates all things, and there are numerous accounts of weather as part of His Glory/cleansing/wrath (from the prophets and in the New Testament), then are the weather events brought by God? (Please if you are of a religion that follows another book, chime in if your Book has anything in it).
Or, are they simply caused by evolutionary changes effecting the earth's atmosphere?
This weekend's tornadoes, God's cleansing or just weather
Moderator: Moderators
-
salvation2011
- Apprentice
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:15 am
This weekend's tornadoes, God's cleansing or just weather
Post #1Let those who have ears hear, those discerning ones will see the truth, not what the world wants them to see as "truth." Let your biases go so you can truly hear the word of God...
Post #2
That's a false dichotomy right there.
Not being one with much of an understanding of extreme weather, I really can't comment on how statistically significant this is, and I don't have immediate access to data on the matter stretching into the past. As such, I don't consider my opinion on it to be very valid.
I will say that it's more than likely not your Deity of choice, though, due to the sheer number of 'possible' Deities and the non-explanatory nature.
Not being one with much of an understanding of extreme weather, I really can't comment on how statistically significant this is, and I don't have immediate access to data on the matter stretching into the past. As such, I don't consider my opinion on it to be very valid.
I will say that it's more than likely not your Deity of choice, though, due to the sheer number of 'possible' Deities and the non-explanatory nature.
-
Choir Loft
- Banned
- Posts: 547
- Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:57 am
- Location: Tampa
Re: This weekend's tornadoes, God's cleansing or just weathe
Post #3The question really seems to ask whether the killer tornado was divine judgment.salvation2011 wrote:Some 240 tornadoes touched down over 3 days, 45 people were killed, homes destroyed etc. If you havent seen the news, it was a huge event we typically see 100 tornadoes in the month of April... the whole month.
Anyway, the debate topic:
If God creates all things, and there are numerous accounts of weather as part of His Glory/cleansing/wrath (from the prophets and in the New Testament), then are the weather events brought by God? (Please if you are of a religion that follows another book, chime in if your Book has anything in it).
Or, are they simply caused by evolutionary changes effecting the earth's atmosphere?
It wasn't.
The Bible provides a template for understanding what is and what is not the result of divine judgment.
WHAT IS NOT DIVINE JUDGMENT
Some things are simply tragic accidents as in Luke 13:4 when a tower collapsed, killing eighteen men. People asked Jesus if that tragedy was some sort of punishment from God. He said it wasn't. We can assume from this as well as the political executions alluded to earlier in the chapter that there are things going on in the world independent of divine design. BTW Jesus said the political thing wasn't from God either.
God is a player in the theater of life, but not the only one present. Man and the elements play a part as well.
WHAT IS DIVINE JUDGMENT
The Bible gives a template for examination of divine judgment and the revelations to man that preceed it. In both old and new sections, the Bible shows by example that God will give warning by means of prophets and preachers prior to an act of judgment. These warnings often preceed the act by years and by decades. Sometimes generations pass while warnings are given.
When judgment falls, everything changes.
The Bible says that God desires a certain behavior and that if said behavior isn't forthcoming by the hand of man, HE will exact a change personally. Such changes are always unpleasant and destructive.
On rare occasions, God uses the elements to exact judgment as in Noah's flood or in the ruination of Egypt in Moses' day. Most of the time, though, God uses other men as in the invading armies that carried away Israel and Judea.
Using the Biblical template then, we see that there was no long warning prior to this past weekend's disaster in Missouri, or in the tsunami that crippled Japan.
It was just weather.
Post #5
Being an aerospace engineering PhD student, I have to say my understanding of fluid systems (such as multiple weather phenomena) is probably one of the better ones here.
And on that note...no, it's not cleansing. It's simply a upward air flow meeting a high-speed wind system creating a local low, thus a cyclic flow. So unless you want to begin claiming that a god's actions are predictable (like most tornadoes are), then no.
And on that note...no, it's not cleansing. It's simply a upward air flow meeting a high-speed wind system creating a local low, thus a cyclic flow. So unless you want to begin claiming that a god's actions are predictable (like most tornadoes are), then no.
Why Evolution is True
Universe from nothing
Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens
Universe from nothing
Claims made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
- Christopher Hitchens
-
salvation2011
- Apprentice
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Mon Apr 11, 2011 8:15 am
Re: This weekend's tornadoes, God's cleansing or just weathe
Post #6How many times is God referenced as coming in the clouds, or as a cloud? HUndreds? Although, Im not a Christian, I do also read the NT and Revelation, and I will say that it is said in the bible that the angels reap from the heavens. We call "up there" "the heavens," the tornadoes could be the reaping referred to in Rev as the vine is ripe. The time of the Gentiles is talked about in the bible as well, and it does not last forever (unless you are reaped and used in His purpose described in the bible), and the purpose is quite clear.richardP wrote:The question really seems to ask whether the killer tornado was divine judgment.salvation2011 wrote:Some 240 tornadoes touched down over 3 days, 45 people were killed, homes destroyed etc. If you havent seen the news, it was a huge event we typically see 100 tornadoes in the month of April... the whole month.
Anyway, the debate topic:
If God creates all things, and there are numerous accounts of weather as part of His Glory/cleansing/wrath (from the prophets and in the New Testament), then are the weather events brought by God? (Please if you are of a religion that follows another book, chime in if your Book has anything in it).
Or, are they simply caused by evolutionary changes effecting the earth's atmosphere?
It wasn't.
The Bible provides a template for understanding what is and what is not the result of divine judgment.
WHAT IS NOT DIVINE JUDGMENT
Some things are simply tragic accidents as in Luke 13:4 when a tower collapsed, killing eighteen men. People asked Jesus if that tragedy was some sort of punishment from God. He said it wasn't. We can assume from this as well as the political executions alluded to earlier in the chapter that there are things going on in the world independent of divine design. BTW Jesus said the political thing wasn't from God either.
God is a player in the theater of life, but not the only one present. Man and the elements play a part as well.
WHAT IS DIVINE JUDGMENT
The Bible gives a template for examination of divine judgment and the revelations to man that preceed it. In both old and new sections, the Bible shows by example that God will give warning by means of prophets and preachers prior to an act of judgment. These warnings often preceed the act by years and by decades. Sometimes generations pass while warnings are given.
When judgment falls, everything changes.
The Bible says that God desires a certain behavior and that if said behavior isn't forthcoming by the hand of man, HE will exact a change personally. Such changes are always unpleasant and destructive.
On rare occasions, God uses the elements to exact judgment as in Noah's flood or in the ruination of Egypt in Moses' day. Most of the time, though, God uses other men as in the invading armies that carried away Israel and Judea.
Using the Biblical template then, we see that there was no long warning prior to this past weekend's disaster in Missouri, or in the tsunami that crippled Japan.
It was just weather.
No one will like that theory though, especially since its coming from little old me. BUT, you cannot discredit the cloud reference from the bible, not one bit.
Re: This weekend's tornadoes, God's cleansing or just weathe
Post #8If god is into 'cleaning' he should take his own advice and first start within his own house/church.salvation2011 wrote: Some 240 tornadoes touched down over 3 days, 45 people were killed, homes destroyed etc. If you havent seen the news, it was a huge event we typically see 100 tornadoes in the month of April... the whole month.
Anyway, the debate topic:
If God creates all things, and there are numerous accounts of weather as part of His Glory/cleansing/wrath (from the prophets and in the New Testament), then are the weather events brought by God? (Please if you are of a religion that follows another book, chime in if your Book has anything in it).
Or, are they simply caused by evolutionary changes effecting the earth's atmosphere?
-
ahigherway
- Apprentice
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:47 am
- Contact:
Post #9
Tornadoes from God?
I believe that ultimately, yes, all things are from God.
Cleansing? No. There are lots of sins of America (such as warring other countries, capital punishment, selling weapons to other countries, greed....).
As such, I don't know if there would be a change in weather if men repented of such things, but I do believe that the more wickedness we sow, the more wickedness we reap...
Blessings,
brian
I believe that ultimately, yes, all things are from God.
Cleansing? No. There are lots of sins of America (such as warring other countries, capital punishment, selling weapons to other countries, greed....).
As such, I don't know if there would be a change in weather if men repented of such things, but I do believe that the more wickedness we sow, the more wickedness we reap...
Blessings,
brian
-
bluethread
- Savant
- Posts: 9129
- Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:10 pm
Post #10
So, if I can explain it, Adonai had nothing to do with it? Last time I checked we were still working on reliable predictor of tornadoes. We have gotten to the point that we can determine the factors that make one possible. However, is there a way to get an accurate prediction before the funnel cloud forms? By the way, unless you missed it, Salvation 2011 was saying that the actions of Adonai are predictable. It just happens to be on a need to know basis. It appears for me Adonai determined that I did not need to know.Scotracer wrote: Being an aerospace engineering PhD student, I have to say my understanding of fluid systems (such as multiple weather phenomena) is probably one of the better ones here.
And on that note...no, it's not cleansing. It's simply a upward air flow meeting a high-speed wind system creating a local low, thus a cyclic flow. So unless you want to begin claiming that a god's actions are predictable (like most tornadoes are), then no.
The question for those who were on the need to know list is want was the message and when did you receive it?
