SHOOT TO KILL - the will to power

[Choir Loft]

Once upon a time a few voices were raised against violence as entertainment; violence in books, violence in magazines, violence on TV, violence in video games and violence in movies.

That was then. This is now.

Classical philosophy holds that no human activity can be conducted without two components; will and power.

Without the strength or the facility or the power to do a thing, no man can act.
Without the desire or the motivation or will to do a thing, no man can act.

These two components must always be present for a human action to be performed. The classic definition of will to power has been modified only slightly in modern police work and court room hearings. Today its called motive and opportunity. Its the same, really except that I personally prefer the classic definition; will to power.

Christian writing begins in the Good Book. In the pages of the Bible there is much discussion about THE WILL. Jesus said that if a man even thought about murder he was guilty of it. Today, however, its perfectly acceptable to spend hard earned dollars on 'escapism' which teaches that mass murder is ok.

Hollywood capitalists believe that there is a fine line between violence projected on a movie screen and violence that begins in front of it. Billions of dollars are spent to justify the marketing of violence as entertainment, all in the name of the constitutional right to distribute murder as a function of free speech.

In the name of constitutional legality, is it ok to incite millions to violence?
In the name of constitutional legality, is it ok to restrict millions from obtaining and carrying the means to defend themselves their families and their homes from violent attack?

Are we dancing on the head of a pin or are personal rights being destroyed by the same constitutional interpretations that are used to make others very wealthy at the risk of our safety?

Are Batman and the Joker having the last laugh at our expense?

Plenty is being said about firearms. Nothing is being said about THE WILL to power, the MOTIVATION to kill that our children are being trained in by means of movies and video games.

Why is it ok to put on a uniform, travel to a foreign land and kill innocent people but not ok to do it at home among our own people? Rev. Martin Luther King raised that question in 1967 and no one has yet to dare an answer. He believed it was wrong. America is ok with killing foreigners but not our own. There is a massive national hypocrisy at work here that none today are willing to address.

THE WILL TO POWER begins long before the first bullet is even purchased, but little is being said about it.

What say you.................

[Divine Insight]

Nothing is being said about THE WILL to power, the MOTIVATION to kill that our children are being trained in by means of movies and video games.

First, let me say that I'm not supporting violent movies. I can certainly do without them and I would personally like to see far more intellectual stuff coming out of Hollywood.

For me personally, I'd much rather watch a meaningful human interest story, a decent romance, a truly witty comedy that doesn't need to resort to slap-stick or utter stupidity to get a laugh, or even a good fantasy or fairy tale. In fact, good fairy tales that have truly decent plots are quite hard to come by.

But that's just me personally. What I actually prefer far better than movies are actual documentaries, or even straight-out college lectures on video.

The other thing that I would like to see far more of is music shows where teachers are teaching people to play instruments. Those are hard to come by too.

In any case, back to your point, "the MOTIVATION to kill that our children are being trained in by means of movies and video games."

That's absurd. There is no meaningful statistical evidence that "our children" are being trained to kill by movies or video game. The very few mentally unstable individuals who go off the deep end like that are exceedingly small in terms of the percentage of society. We're probably talking something like 0.0000001%. If it's even that high.

A number that is so small it probably just represents the number of male-functioning brains that DNA is likely to randomly produce naturally.

Mental illness is a fact of life. The overwhelming vast majority of people who go to see violent movies or play violent video games do not become violent people. So there is no meaningful correlation there.

And most people realize this, that's why they aren't up in arms about demanding that Hollywood stop producing movies that contain violence.

What say you.................

I say that many other things our society does are far more likely to cause people to go off the deep end and have a nervous breakdown, resort to violence, or simply go nuts.

A Competition-Driven Society as the Culprit

That fact that we condone a society that is based on competition rather than on cooperation probably causes more anxiety and desperation in people than any other single factor. Especially in people who feel that they might be falling through the cracks of a competition-driven society.

Once a person feels like they are so far "under the competition" they break, and think of ways to "get even".

Opportunity is GREAT for those who see it in a competitive system. But for those who may not be very competitive a competitive system just represents a constant struggle just to "tread Water" and if they feel like they are "sinking" LOOK OUT, because you never know what they might do in an act of desperation.

I think that's a far more likely cause of people going berserk than to think that they did it just because they saw a violent movie or played a violent video game.

Just Look at our "Leaders"

We have two people currently competing to become the official leader of our nation. One already is the leader and simply wants to retain his position, the other wants to see the first booted out so he can become the new leader.

And just like animals they publicly fight by slinging mud at each other like great Apes to see who the new leader of the monkey troop will be.

It's a wonder anyone has any respect left knowing that the leaders of great nations can't even simply present their positive cases in a mature and intelligent manner.

That's enough to make even the proudest of men toss in the towel and say, "What's the use in trying to do things right? Even the greatest world leaders act like ignorant apes anymore".

Christian writing begins in the Good Book. In the pages of the Bible there is much discussion about THE WILL. Jesus said that if a man even thought about murder he was guilty of it.

The Bible as a Moral Guide?

Oh please! Talk about a book that teaches violence and ignorance. Few books can top the Bible in that respect.


The thing starts out with a supposedly all-wise God cursing a serpent to crawl on its belly and eat dirt for the rest of it's life.

What does that teach us?

That teaches us that it's ok to do horrible things to other people as punishments because surely if it's good enough behavior for a divine God, then it must be a divine way to solve problems right?

So the Bible teaches us right off the bat that doing bad things to people who have done something we consider to be wrong is a divine way to act.

Then God curses woman with painful conception and childbirth, again as a "punishment".

So once again we see this idea that being mean to people and inflicting them with painful punishments is "Divine Behavior".

It has to be "Divine Behavior" if we are being taught that this is how our Divine Creator behaves.

Then God condemns the woman to be ruled over by her husband and her desire shall be to serve him.

Now we have this God condoning male-chauvinism as "justice".

These kinds of physical punishments just get worse as the Bible continues on, until flooding out the entire planet is a "Divine Solution" to the problem. The ultimate act of violence condoned to be a "Divine Solution" of God himself.

Later we learn that this God can't even forgive people unless someone is nailed to a pole first to, once again (you guessed it!) To VIOLENTLY PAY for the disobedience of men!

The Bible teaches that violence is God's solution for EVERYTHING.

I can't even believe you would bring up the Bible when you're complaining about our children being taught violence.

The Hebrew Bible is the first thing we should dump.

[Choir Loft]

Divine Insight wrote;
"That's absurd. There is no meaningful statistical evidence that "our children" are being trained to kill by movies or video game. The very few mentally unstable individuals who go off the deep end like that are exceedingly small in terms of the percentage of society. We're probably talking something like 0.0000001%. If it's even that high."

No meaningful statistical evidence? Try reading the balance sheets of Madison Avenue firms. Lets have a look at the profits raked in by Hollywood moguls. They will be released on Monday, btw. It is very meaningful evidence, unless of course one wants to deliberately ignore it to the detriment of society as a whole.

It's a psychological fact that violence sells. It is proven that people can be persuaded and manipulated to buy and to act according to advertisers' messages. There is a huge industry based on that fact alone. Are you not aware of this or are you simply dismissing this evidence because you don't agree with it? A lot of people have based their careers in advertising on just such a fact of life.

As far as the percentages you dreamed up, how about a trip to the local prisons which are bulging with inmates from your .00000001%? Are you seriously saying that there's no crime in this country and that it isn't inspired and encouraged by movies, television and the like? Where do you think it comes from ... too much sugar? It is cultural and it is American.

From the Prevention Institute.....
U.S. culture is exported around the globe along with products made by Levi, Pepsi, Nike, and Marlboro. Images of violence are frequently associated with the culture of the United States. Western movies show cowboys conquering Native Americans, and televised music videos exploit young women. Violence is everywhere in the American psyche and culture. But, while it is often referred to as an epidemic, it is not a disease; it is a learned behavior. Because violence is a learned behavior, it is preventable.

This from the NY Times....the writer isn't convinced of a direct link between violence and movies...

I think the link is between the violence and the publicity. Those like James Holmes, who feel the need to arm themselves, may also feel a deep, inchoate insecurity and a need for validation. Whenever a tragedy like this takes place, it is assigned catchphrases and theme music, and the same fragmentary TV footage of the shooter is cycled again and again. Somewhere in the night, among those watching, will be another angry, aggrieved loner who is uncoiling toward action.

I could go on and on here, but it is patently obvious that experts in these sorts of things testify that there is a link between violence in advertising and movies and the desire to act it out in real life. To deny this is to deny reality and expert opinion.

Then again, that's the whole point of my leading post. Even the testimony of experts isn't taken seriously. It's not taken seriously because American culture is addicted to violence and because American entertainment industry is milking the public of billions and will not let it go. Yet one more bit of evidence of a society in collapse.

As for your rant against religion and politics, it should be pointed out that the most recent violence wasn't religiously inspired at all. Neither was it inspired by Romney Obama or the Olympic games. It was inspired by MOVIES and by the Joker character in particular. Evidence for that is undeniable. The shooter even dyed his hair like the joker. The issue here is modern American culture, not that of Jews the inner workings of Washington DC, or your hatred of all things religious.

Your post began well enough, but then disintegrated into statements of a hateful grudge against religion. You have some good things to contribute if you'd only stay on point.

The will to kill was present in the movie crime before the first bullet was purchased. It is the formation of that will which it is my intent to address.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Divine Insight]

A lot of people have based their careers in advertising on just such a fact of life.

Comparing movies with advertisements that are deliberately trying to encourage people to buy a products is no comparison at all.

Movies aren't "advertisements" that attempt to encourage people to go out and do violent acts.

On the contrary, don't those very same movies have "heroes" in them that seek to stop the violence? You seem to be ignoring that fact altogether.

As far as the percentages you dreamed up, how about a trip to the local prisons which are bulging with inmates from your .00000001%? Are you seriously saying that there's no crime in this country and that it isn't inspired and encouraged by movies, television and the like? Where do you think it comes from ... too much sugar? It is cultural and it is American.

Oh, so now you're talking about regular crimes that have been committed all throughout history even before movies were invented?

The last time I looked into those statistics for the USA it was something like 1% for violent crimes (not all murders, just violent crimes), with something like 5% of the population committing less serious crimes,. If you toss in everything right down to handing out parking tickets you might be able to squeak it up to 10% crime rate.

At that time I also compared those stats with other countries and they were very similar across the board.

But you are clearly referring to the freak mass killing like the nut case at Colorado. Those kinds of events are extremely rare. Fortunately.

Our prisons are NOT filled with those kinds of seriously mentally ill people.

In fact, we should actually be more surprised about the fact that most people who have committed violent crimes often kept it down to just between them and one other person, or something like that in MOST cases.

From the Prevention Institute.....
U.S. culture is exported around the globe along with products made by Levi, Pepsi, Nike, and Marlboro. Images of violence are frequently associated with the culture of the United States. Western movies show cowboys conquering Native Americans, and televised music videos exploit young women. Violence is everywhere in the American psyche and culture. But, while it is often referred to as an epidemic, it is not a disease; it is a learned behavior. Because violence is a learned behavior, it is preventable.

Who are they to say that violence is a "learned behavior"? What about the Texas Tower Sniper, he was supposed to had a tumor growing in his brain that is now believed to have caused him to become violent. This guy in Colorado may very well have a similar physical problem in his brain wiring as well. It's too early to tell at this point.

This from the NY Times....the writer isn't convinced of a direct link between violence and movies...

I think the link is between the violence and the publicity. Those like James Holmes, who feel the need to arm themselves, may also feel a deep, inchoate insecurity and a need for validation. Whenever a tragedy like this takes place, it is assigned catchphrases and theme music, and the same fragmentary TV footage of the shooter is cycled again and again. Somewhere in the night, among those watching, will be another angry, aggrieved loner who is uncoiling toward action.

Well this guy is actually linking violence to the publicity that violent acts themselves create. Sounds like he's suggesting that we shouldn't make a big deal out of it. At least not over the criminal. We should be focused more on the victims, and we shouldn't even have been told the perpetrator's name, much less plastering his picture all of the Internet for everyone to gawk at.

I could go on and on here, but it is patently obvious that experts in these sorts of things testify that there is a link between violence in advertising and movies and the desire to act it out in real life. To deny this is to deny reality and expert opinion.

I'm not suggesting that there's "no link at all". I agree that we'd be far better off without so much violence being sold in as movies and video games.

But to think that those are the things that drove this guy to do the extreme things he did in Colorado? I don't see it.

If anything, he might have been inspired by previous nut cases who did similar things and made headlines, books, and were the cause of documentaries as well as movies made about their crime.

And that probably will happen. A documentary or movie probably will eventually be made about this event just like they have been made by other extreme events like this.

Then again, that's the whole point of my leading post. Even the testimony of experts isn't taken seriously. It's not taken seriously because American culture is addicted to violence and because American entertainment industry is milking the public of billions and will not let it go. Yet one more bit of evidence of a society in collapse.

No, that's not why it's not taking seriously. It's not taken seriously because there are just as many "experts" who aren't convinced that there is a significant connection.

You asked a bit earlier if I thought that too much sugar might be the cause of such violence. Well, if you ask my sister she's be saying yes! Eating too much sugar can cause serious mental health problems, especially in some people. And she is a professional psychologist who also works very closely with people who study how diets affect the brain.

As for your rant against religion and politics, it should be pointed out that the most recent violence wasn't religiously inspired at all.

How do you know what inspired it?

In James Holmes case it could very well be that he was so disappointed in how violent our very own creator appears to be according to the Christian picture of God that this is what caused him to give up on life and go over the edge.

You don't know what caused this man to go over the edge.

Neither was it inspired by Romney Obama or the Olympic games.

Again, how do you know that?

It could have been his lost of faith in mankind that caused him to go down the path of mental insanity in the first place.

It was inspired by MOVIES and by the Joker character in particular. Evidence for that is undeniable. The shooter even dyed his hair like the joker. The issue here is modern American culture, not that of Jews the inner workings of Washington DC, or your hatred of all things religious.

Just because his final symptoms ended up becoming associated with a particular movie doesn't mean that was the CAUSE of his mental breakdown.

It could be NONE of the above. It could be a tumor on the brain, or some other physical malfunction. You have no clue what drove this man to insanity.

Your post began well enough, but then disintegrated into statements of a hateful grudge against religion. You have some good things to contribute if you'd only stay on point.

Well, I'm sorry, but you're the one who first brought up the Bible as a source of good moral values. Had you not done that I wouldn't have responded to that issue.

If you're going to start "preaching" that we need the "Hebrew God" in our lives, you can bet your sweet bippy that I'll be piping up!

The will to kill was present in the movie crime before the first bullet was purchased. It is the formation of that will which it is my intent to address.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

Well, I don't know either. Maybe this guy was influenced by movies.

But no matter what he was influenced by he has to be mentally disturbed in some way that goes far deeper than that mere surface influence.

Normal healthy people don't run out, buy guns, and booby-trap their houses with bombs just because they had watched a violent movie.

~~~~

But for whatever it's worth, if it comes to a vote, I'll gladly vote AGAINST violent movies, and violent video games. I'll even toss in my vote for better gun control.

But no way will I be voting FOR the Hebrew Bible to be the basis of modern day social morality. I disagree with many of the so-called "moral values" that are taught via the Hebrew picture of "God".

Even Jesus himself rebuked some of the immoral values that had been taught in the Old Testament.

[Bust Nak]

What say you.................

I say we don't ban stuff based on the action of crazy individuals.

There is evidence that while violent movie and video games do increase aggressiveness immediately afterwards comsumption, they do not have any long terms effects even with continious exposure.

It's true that violent video games sell, but that doesn't lead to more violent crimes. Infact, as as sales goes up, violent crime goes down. While collation does not mean causation, I would suggest that if people are at home shooting things up virtually, they aren't outside shooting things up for real.

[Choir Loft]

What say you.................

I say we don't ban stuff based on the action of crazy individuals.

There is evidence that while violent movie and video games do increase aggressiveness immediately afterwards comsumption, they do not have any long terms effects even with continious exposure.

It's true that violent video games sell, but that doesn't lead to more violent crimes. Infact, as as sales goes up, violent crime goes down. While collation does not mean causation, I would suggest that if people are at home shooting things up virtually, they aren't outside shooting things up for real.

One year ago in Norway, almost to the day of the Aurora shootings, a madman killed 87 innocent people.

In that country, it is forbidden by law to trade in automatic or semi-automatic weapons unless they have been permanently disabled. Additionally, it is illegal to own or use a firearm unless a police issued carry permit is obtained. Despite these restrictions a mass shooting occurred.

All I'm saying is that another aspect of such crimes ought to be considered - the likelihood that inspiration for murder comes to the individual long before the gun is in hand. It comes from the imagination of a troubled mind and the imaginations are stoked and fed by violence in entertainment. Copy cat murder is a police and media term and that term is not based on fantasy or conjecture. Its a fact!

it's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Bust Nak]

One year ago in Norway, almost to the day of the Aurora shootings, a madman killed 87 innocent people.

In that country, it is forbidden by law to trade in automatic or semi-automatic weapons unless they have been permanently disabled. Additionally, it is illegal to own or use a firearm unless a police issued carry permit is obtained. Despite these restrictions a mass shooting occurred.

Right, we don't ban stuff based on the action of crazy individuals.

All I'm saying is that another aspect of such crimes ought to be considered - the likelihood that inspiration for murder comes to the individual long before the gun is in hand. It comes from the imagination of a troubled mind and the imaginations are stoked and fed by violence in entertainment. Copy cat murder is a police and media term and that term is not based on fantasy or conjecture. Its a fact!

Right, but I say the fault lies with the individual, not the inspiration, when the same entertainment doesn't inspire violence in others.

[Nilloc James]

The Bureau-of-Justice statistics tell a different story than the one presented by the original poster. If his theory that modern media selling violence is the CAUSE (not correlation or any other such confusion) then we would see a continued rise in violent crime as the film industry grew.

In reality we see violent crime has been dropping since the early 1990s; this fact falsifies richardp's claim that violent films are the cause of violent crime.


edit: I forgot the image tags.

[connermt]

Once upon a time a few voices were raised against violence as entertainment; violence in books, violence in magazines, violence on TV, violence in video games and violence in movies.

That was then. This is now.

Classical philosophy holds that no human activity can be conducted without two components; will and power.

Without the strength or the facility or the power to do a thing, no man can act.
Without the desire or the motivation or will to do a thing, no man can act.

These two components must always be present for a human action to be performed. The classic definition of will to power has been modified only slightly in modern police work and court room hearings. Today its called motive and opportunity. Its the same, really except that I personally prefer the classic definition; will to power.

Christian writing begins in the Good Book. In the pages of the Bible there is much discussion about THE WILL. Jesus said that if a man even thought about murder he was guilty of it. Today, however, its perfectly acceptable to spend hard earned dollars on 'escapism' which teaches that mass murder is ok.

Hollywood capitalists believe that there is a fine line between violence projected on a movie screen and violence that begins in front of it. Billions of dollars are spent to justify the marketing of violence as entertainment, all in the name of the constitutional right to distribute murder as a function of free speech.

In the name of constitutional legality, is it ok to incite millions to violence?
In the name of constitutional legality, is it ok to restrict millions from obtaining and carrying the means to defend themselves their families and their homes from violent attack?

Are we dancing on the head of a pin or are personal rights being destroyed by the same constitutional interpretations that are used to make others very wealthy at the risk of our safety?

Are Batman and the Joker having the last laugh at our expense?

Plenty is being said about firearms. Nothing is being said about THE WILL to power, the MOTIVATION to kill that our children are being trained in by means of movies and video games.

Why is it ok to put on a uniform, travel to a foreign land and kill innocent people but not ok to do it at home among our own people? Rev. Martin Luther King raised that question in 1967 and no one has yet to dare an answer. He believed it was wrong. America is ok with killing foreigners but not our own. There is a massive national hypocrisy at work here that none today are willing to address.

THE WILL TO POWER begins long before the first bullet is even purchased, but little is being said about it.

What say you.................

I say you're putting way too much emhasis on things like movies, media, etc and not enough emphasis on individuality and education.
Violence existed long before movies and media. What we're seeing in the movies and media is nothing more than "more of the SAME stuff". Meaning it's always been there and always will be, but we're seeing more of it and our brains tend to take what we see and materialize it into what "must exist!"
People are violent with other people. This will only change when people stop existing. The more people that exist, the more violence we can expect to see. Unless people start making a conscious effort to change how we interact with others.

[Nilloc James]

Once upon a time a few voices were raised against violence as entertainment; violence in books, violence in magazines, violence on TV, violence in video games and violence in movies.

That was then. This is now.

Classical philosophy holds that no human activity can be conducted without two components; will and power.

Without the strength or the facility or the power to do a thing, no man can act.
Without the desire or the motivation or will to do a thing, no man can act.

These two components must always be present for a human action to be performed. The classic definition of will to power has been modified only slightly in modern police work and court room hearings. Today its called motive and opportunity. Its the same, really except that I personally prefer the classic definition; will to power.

Christian writing begins in the Good Book. In the pages of the Bible there is much discussion about THE WILL. Jesus said that if a man even thought about murder he was guilty of it. Today, however, its perfectly acceptable to spend hard earned dollars on 'escapism' which teaches that mass murder is ok.

Hollywood capitalists believe that there is a fine line between violence projected on a movie screen and violence that begins in front of it. Billions of dollars are spent to justify the marketing of violence as entertainment, all in the name of the constitutional right to distribute murder as a function of free speech.

In the name of constitutional legality, is it ok to incite millions to violence?
In the name of constitutional legality, is it ok to restrict millions from obtaining and carrying the means to defend themselves their families and their homes from violent attack?

Are we dancing on the head of a pin or are personal rights being destroyed by the same constitutional interpretations that are used to make others very wealthy at the risk of our safety?

Are Batman and the Joker having the last laugh at our expense?

Plenty is being said about firearms. Nothing is being said about THE WILL to power, the MOTIVATION to kill that our children are being trained in by means of movies and video games.

Why is it ok to put on a uniform, travel to a foreign land and kill innocent people but not ok to do it at home among our own people? Rev. Martin Luther King raised that question in 1967 and no one has yet to dare an answer. He believed it was wrong. America is ok with killing foreigners but not our own. There is a massive national hypocrisy at work here that none today are willing to address.

THE WILL TO POWER begins long before the first bullet is even purchased, but little is being said about it.

What say you.................

I say you're putting way too much emhasis on things like movies, media, etc and not enough emphasis on individuality and education.
Violence existed long before movies and media. What we're seeing in the movies and media is nothing more than "more of the SAME stuff". Meaning it's always been there and always will be, but we're seeing more of it and our brains tend to take what we see and materialize it into what "must exist!"
People are violent with other people. This will only change when people stop existing. The more people that exist, the more violence we can expect to see. Unless people start making a conscious effort to change how we interact with others.

I think you hit on a very good point, especially in light of the fact people are overly paranoid about crime. The economist reported that fear of crime and crime rates themselves are not closely connected:



Additionally, there are some interesting facts about how people who are unlikely to be victims of crime are often more paranoid than those who are likely victims.

This year's figures show that 16% of women over 60 think they are likely to be mugged—a fate that actually befalls fewer than one in two hundred. Meanwhile, young men, who are victimised at more than three times the national rate, are unusually unbothered. People living in Avon and Somerset seem irrationally calm, given above-average rates of burglary and car crime. But the inhabitants of Durham, who suffer around a quarter less crime than people elsewhere in the region, are very worried about it indeed; 26% have even managed to convince themselves that they live in a highly disorderly area.