The Founders Believed in Secession

[moment_of_faith]

http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-the-fo ... secession/

In the aftermath of petitions from all 50 states to secede being posted on the White House website and signed by over a million Americans, the secessionist movement has been portrayed as anti-American, unpatriotic and even treasonous. In reality, as Ron Paul has emphasized, it is as American as apple pie and George Washington.

Paul updated his thoughts on secession during an appearance on C-Span today, noting how “The founders believed in it, there’s no prohibition in the Constitution against secession,� adding that the union was voluntary and therefore secession was also voluntary under the tenth amendment.

“They want to put them on a list that they’re committing treason, put them in prison or throw them out of the country – what about the First Amendment,� asked Paul in response to calls by some on the left to have pro-secessionists deported.

“The principle of secession is very important, not so much for the purpose of seceding, but the purpose of saying to the federal government ‘if you mistreat us that’s what we might consider’,� said Paul, noting that New England talked about secession in the early 19th century and was not condemned for doing so.


Read the rest here -- http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-the-fo ... secession/

[cnorman18]

The Founders believed in secession?

So what? They believed in slavery, too, and suffrage only for males, and for males who owned land at that, and...

Oh, never mind. Secession is a dead issue, and has been for almost 150 years now. We fought a war over it, you know.

Actually, I think the issue now is similar to what it was then; in 1860, people wanted to secede because they did not believe that black people should have the right to be free, and not slaves; in 2013, people want to secede because they do not believe that black people should have the right to serve as President of the United States.

If that's not true, please explain all the blatantly racist and bigoted signs and banners at Tea Party rallies -- and even more importantly, why no one on the Right denounces or disavows them.

[McCulloch]

Of course the Founders of the United States of America believed in succession. They overthrew what Bible believers would have called the God given authority of the King in order to establish their freedom. But they also believed that they had to hang together in order to keep and protect their freedoms. E pluribus unum. Initially, the War between the States was as much about States Rights as it was about slavery.

The issue of slavery polarized the union, with the Jeffersonian principles often being used by both sides—anti-slavery Northerners, and Southern slaveholders and secessionists—in debates that ultimately led to the American Civil War. Supporters of slavery often argued that one of the rights of the states was the protection of slave property wherever it went, a position endorsed by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1857 Dred Scott decision. In contrast, opponents of slavery argued that the non-slave-states' rights were violated both by that decision and by the Fugitive Slave Law of 1850. Exactly which—and whose—states' rights were the casus belli in the Civil War remain in controversy.
-- Wikipedia

However, as CNorman points out, that was then, this is now. Personally, I believe in a people's right to self determination. If a division of any country demonstrates a clear majority will to become its own nation, then that will should be recognized. If Québec chooses to leave Canada, then bon chance to them. If Scotland chooses to leave the UK then Guid Luc to them.

[Robert H]

[Replying to post 1 by moment_of_faith]

The Declaration of Independence specifically states that if a government is tyrannical and out of control it is the duty of the people to overthrow the government and start a new one.

While the two political whore parties that haven taken over fight over who is doing a the worst at controlling, the true American people should be working as hard as we can to get these two parties out of control. Parties need to be completely eliminated.

[Goat]

[Replying to post 1 by moment_of_faith]

The Declaration of Independence specifically states that if a government is tyrannical and out of control it is the duty of the people to overthrow the government and start a new one.

While the two political whore parties that haven taken over fight over who is doing a the worst at controlling, the true American people should be working as hard as we can to get these two parties out of control. Parties need to be completely eliminated.

Of course, the declaration of independence has no legal standing in the U.S. today. That was then, this is now.

[Choir Loft]

Of course, the declaration of independence has no legal standing in the U.S. today. That was then, this is now.

Agreed. Totally.

It is also true that the constitution has no legal standing either, specifically the first ten amendments casually referred to as the bill of rights. The bill is overdue and the rights it speaks of do not exist any longer.

The phrase "living document" is usually employed in reference to the constitution. In practice the phrase means constitutional law can be changed by simple reinterpretation of the high court instead of the amendment process originally specified. As a result we are now in a situation where the original intent of the document is a matter of historic record - not current in any application at all.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[cl]

http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-the-fo ... secession/

In the aftermath of petitions from all 50 states to secede being posted on the White House website and signed by over a million Americans, the secessionist movement has been portrayed as anti-American, unpatriotic and even treasonous. In reality, as Ron Paul has emphasized, it is as American as apple pie and George Washington.

Paul updated his thoughts on secession during an appearance on C-Span today, noting how “The founders believed in it, there’s no prohibition in the Constitution against secession,� adding that the union was voluntary and therefore secession was also voluntary under the tenth amendment.

“They want to put them on a list that they’re committing treason, put them in prison or throw them out of the country – what about the First Amendment,� asked Paul in response to calls by some on the left to have pro-secessionists deported.

“The principle of secession is very important, not so much for the purpose of seceding, but the purpose of saying to the federal government ‘if you mistreat us that’s what we might consider’,� said Paul, noting that New England talked about secession in the early 19th century and was not condemned for doing so.


Read the rest here -- http://www.infowars.com/ron-paul-the-fo ... secession/

All well and good, but legitimate leadership is needed and we see none of that.

No elected official will stand up and wave the flag of statehood or secession or what-have-you. The subject is good for tickling out a few votes, but not really something of worth - as far as leaders are concerned.

[chevron1]

The phrase "living document" is usually employed in reference to the constitution. In practice the phrase means constitutional law can be changed by simple reinterpretation of the high court instead of the amendment process originally specified. As a result we are now in a situation where the original intent of the document is a matter of historic record - not current in any application at all.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

well, but, if the supreme court decided to eviscerate the original meaning of an amendment then it loses its credibility. that's why it still has to be reasonable.