What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

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Tommy63
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What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #1

Post by Tommy63 »

To start off before I get pounded with ignorance arrows, I am not a professor or doctor. I have been a Christian since 2001, but have become sadden with the things I see going on in the church today. So much that I do not attend anymore. I still believe in God, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, but I feel like a hypocrite when I'm in church. Theatrics is the only word that seems to fit. I see big payrolls that seem to go up when the members go up, I see applause after someone performs, I see tithes not going to help the surrounding communities. I see events taking place at the church that have nothing to do with christianity. So my question is what gives us the right to make up new rules that are not found in the bible? To me the answers to what we are to be doing are all there in the bible, we are just choosing to ignore them so we can stay in our comfort zone. What's your thoughts on this? If you are a Christian and you think I'm wrong on this matter please respond to these questions with scripture to show me different?

[sheilds up captian]

A Troubled Man
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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #11

Post by A Troubled Man »

richardP wrote:
A straight answer is not heard when the listening is crooked.

Men hear what they want to hear and they do what they want to do. Mostly they justify what they do by what they think they've heard or by what they want to hear.

Of such is the nature of a dead culture and a dying nation. When there is no anchor in truth the culture withers, and when there is no spirit to live the truth a nation dies. Truth is the first casualty of a dying empire.

On the day of His execution, Jesus stood before His judge Pontius Pilate. During a series of questions Jesus said, "everyone who is of the truth hears my voice." Pilate responded in frustration at the circumstances when he uttered the famous words, "what is truth."

Truth is that which conforms to what is.
Then, YOU are hearing what you want to hear because there is no evidence whatsoever that Jesus stood before Pilate, hence no truth to it.
Perhaps you are new to this forum. You should know that this isn't the only Christian debate site either. On all these sites the questions of how to celebrate our faith and how strict or slack those rules ought to be are subjects of constant examination. Differences in opinion and experience abound, and those who share common views find others who are more or less in agreement. In that way, the disciples of Christ help one another in the great pilgrimage of life.
And yet, all we ever read are Christians arguing against one another's opinions, calling the other evil and demonic. How that helps "the great pilgrimage of life" is baffling.
When a man decides to follow Christ he binds himself to the Truth and the Truth binds Itself to him. Discovering bits of that Truth will often take an entire lifetime and beyond. The caveat to discovering the truth is that a man is obliged to live it whether it's an inconvenience to him or not.
Sorry, but there is little truth in Christianity. Truth is in what science discovers, not from some ancient myth.

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Choir Loft
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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #12

Post by Choir Loft »

Troubled man wrote:

Sorry, but there is little truth in Christianity. Truth is in what science discovers, not from some ancient myth.


The reliance upon science for the answers to all things is a common error in logic and philosophy - yet it has been embraced by many who do not know how to use the very tools they claim can win them illumination.


"Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge which is power; religion gives man wisdom which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values.

The two are not rivals. They are complementary.

Science keeps religion from sinking into the valley of crippling irrationalism and paralyzing obscurantism. Religion prevents science from falling into the marsh of obsolete materialism and moral nihilism."

- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Your science, Mr. Troubled Man, gave us nerve gas as well as the godless morality to use it against innocent Jews.

Your science, Mr. Troubled Man, gave us the mechanics of modern warfare which godless men are using to kill and destroy millions as we conduct our polite discussions.

And yes, there is secular proof that Jesus did indeed live and die at the hands of the Romans as well as plenty of non-Biblical proofs that Christ rose again from the dead.

But godless morality will not admit to the facts of history and Trouble Man, along with many others, will never find peace for his mind.

You can snuggle up to your empty science on a lonely troubled night. It won't give you a bit of comfort when your mind is troubled, but it will help you to end your misery very quickly.

Jesus comes to give life and light and purpose as well as science.

Cut your scientific philosophy to the bone and you will find nothing.
Cut the Bible to the bone and you will find God.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back,
forsaken by all.

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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #13

Post by A Troubled Man »

Choir Loft wrote:
The reliance upon science for the answers to all things is a common error in logic and philosophy - yet it has been embraced by many who do not know how to use the very tools they claim can win them illumination.
That is entirely false.

"Science investigates; religion interprets. Science gives man knowledge which is power; religion gives man wisdom which is control. Science deals mainly with facts; religion deals mainly with values.

The two are not rivals. They are complementary.


Impossible. Religion is based on faith, science is based on facts. They are at either end of the spectrum when it comes to knowledge.

Your science, Mr. Troubled Man, gave us nerve gas as well as the godless morality to use it against innocent Jews.


:lol: Straw man argument. A very poor one, at that. Science has provided YOU with every convenience in your life, the computer and internet connection and these forums in which believers like yourself deny and reject the very science that brought you these things. Without science, you'd be living in a cave.

Your science, Mr. Troubled Man, gave us the mechanics of modern warfare which godless men are using to kill and destroy millions as we conduct our polite discussions.


Hilarious, you confuse science with those who wage wars. And no, many of those who do wage wars are not godless, they are faithful believers like yourself.

And yes, there is secular proof that Jesus did indeed live and die at the hands of the Romans as well as plenty of non-Biblical proofs that Christ rose again from the dead.


No, there isn't. But of course, you're free to present it here, it would be a first.

But godless morality will not admit to the facts of history and Trouble Man, along with many others, will never find peace for his mind.


Sorry, but the "godless" have morals and ethics, and they were not taught by any religions.

You can snuggle up to your empty science on a lonely troubled night.


You can snuggle up to your invisible friend, too. Do you have a point or are just trying to be insulting?

It won't give you a bit of comfort when your mind is troubled, but it will help you to end your misery very quickly.


That is gibberish.

Jesus comes to give life and light and purpose as well as science.


Yes, but he also didn't encourage lying, either.

Cut your scientific philosophy to the bone and you will find nothing.


Except, everything on the planet provided by science.

Cut the Bible to the bone and you will find God.


I found only a book with empty promises and a manical dictator/despot who is only interested in praise and obedience.

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Choir Loft
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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #14

Post by Choir Loft »

In reference to the Word of God, a troubled man wrote:

I found only a book with empty promises and a manical dictator/despot who is only interested in praise and obedience.

The gentleman wrote that he found nothing of value, yet he did not mention where he looked. I submit that what is written in his posts has nothing at all to do with truth.

It isn't truth that is in question today, it's the hypocrisy of the search.

The scriptures categorically state that the problem with such people (skeptics) is not the lack of evidence; it is rather, the suppression of it.

If the troubled man does not reverse his ways and recognize truth when presented to him, he may suffer eternal consequences for his self-appointed judgement of that which he can neither see nor understand (the Kingdom of God).

Those who worship and praise the Lord of Hosts do so not because He demands it, but because He has earned it and deserves it.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back,
forsaken by all.

A Troubled Man
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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #15

Post by A Troubled Man »

Choir Loft wrote: In reference to the Word of God, a troubled man wrote:

I found only a book with empty promises and a manical dictator/despot who is only interested in praise and obedience.

The gentleman wrote that he found nothing of value, yet he did not mention where he looked.
It's a selection of two books, one is called, "The Old Testament" and the other, "The New Testament"

Does that help you?
I submit that what is written in his posts has nothing at all to do with truth.
Neither do those books have anything to do with truth.
It isn't truth that is in question today, it's the hypocrisy of the search.

The scriptures categorically state that the problem with such people (skeptics) is not the lack of evidence; it is rather, the suppression of it.
And yet, evidence is exactly what skeptics deal with, hence your claim is nonsensical.
If the troubled man does not reverse his ways and recognize truth when presented to him, he may suffer eternal consequences for his self-appointed judgement of that which he can neither see nor understand (the Kingdom of God).
Ridiculous attempts at childish threats are irrelevant. Is that the best argument you can muster? :lol:
Those who worship and praise the Lord of Hosts do so not because He demands it, but because He has earned it and deserves it.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
So many words hollered, so little content.

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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #16

Post by Choir Loft »

Troubled man wrote:
So many words hollered, so little content.

Internet conversations like this provide the perfect arena for the nay sayer.

All this person has to do to appear to win an argument is bray like a mule and to do so louder than anyone else. It matters not that he speaks nonsense, disregards all the rules of logic, fails to provide an atom of evidence to support his blathering and tosses reason into the toilet. Mindlessly pursuing his own reckless words, he fails to recognize that his word is not the last to be spoken.

Here is the last word.

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God."
- Psalm 53:1

"A fool hath no delight in understanding, but only that his heart may reveal itself."
- Proverbs 18:2

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back,
forsaken by all.

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Choir Loft
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Post #17

Post by Choir Loft »

McCulloch wrote: If you still believe the message of the New Testament, then you will not forsake the assembling of Christians. One thing that you should learn is that real believers do not go to church. The true Christians are the church. If you are spiritually part of the body of Christ, then you cannot help but want to be together with the other members of that body.

There are groups of Christians who do humbly seek to serve. You need to find one of them. Good luck.
I am entirely in agreement with your post.

Unfortunately in all my forty years of being saved, I've only encountered one church assembly that wasn't obsessed with the Sunday morning Vegas style big production, show stopping entertainment.

Your post is right on the money. Christians ought not forsake the assembling of themselves together.

The problem is that church has become a dog and pony show. It's purpose is simply to make money and glory for its leaders.

God and Christ have become nothing more than inspirational visual aids.

Case in point;
Go into any protestant church and you'll probably see an American flag. You may also see a cross, stained glass window or altar front and center.

According to flag etiquette, the American flag is posted in a location where all lesser symbols are to its own left. This includes the cross, or whatever passes for Christian symbolism. Therefore, if symbols mean anything to us at all, then the flag is symbolically superior to the cross of Christ.

It's a small example, and one that's taken for granted, but one of the reasons why men and women of conscience are abandoning the Laodicean church in America.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
R.I.P. AMERICAN REPUBLIC
[June 21, 1788 - October 26, 2001]

- Here lies Liberty -
Born in the spring,
died in the fall.
Stabbed in the back,
forsaken by all.

A Troubled Man
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Re: What Gives Us The Right To Make The Rules?

Post #18

Post by A Troubled Man »

Choir Loft wrote:
All this person has to do to appear to win an argument is bray like a mule...

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...
Yes, I see what you mean, both of those are pretty much the same thing.

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