Deadly Combination: ignorance, hate & religion

[Danmark]

Once again the tragic events in Boston April 15, 2013 involve the deadly combination of ignorance, religion and hatred. Once again the religion is Islam and the resources used to fuel the hate came from an Al Qaeda terrorist site. It becomes harder and harder not to blame Islam and religion in general, despite knowing that most Muslims are peace loving.

What triggered this topic is the news from a friend of the older of the two terrorists than he claimed the Bible was a 'cheap copy' of the Qur'an, despite the Qur'an having been written about 500 years after the NT.

Muslims argue vigorously that it is only a misunderstanding of their religion that results in acts of terror and that the Bible also has verses of violence and adherents who terrorize.

The question for debate is how much is ignorance to blame instead of religion?
does Islam play a particularly responsible role in the culture of terrorism?

[Danmark]

Wow, what magic is wrought by statistics! It's really how you read it. Firstly, a considerable volume of Pinkers [sic] work draws on the efforts of others....

Of course it does. Pinker references Eisner. Are you suggesting that the statistics and conclusions are wrong simply because he referenced Eisner?

The work does not limit itself to the 20th and 21st Centuries. Of more importance is the Century by Century comparison. From the review:

"Pinker presents some astonishing numbers. Tribal warfare was nine times as deadly as war and genocide in the 20th century. The murder rate of Medieval Europe was more than thirty times what it is today. Slavery, sadistic punishments, and frivolous executions were unexceptionable features of life for millennia.....What led people to stop sacrificing children, stabbing each other at the dinner table, or burning cats and disemboweling criminals as forms of popular entertainment?" If you claim those statistics are inaccurate, this is your chance to refute them.

[connermt]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

The question for debate is how much is ignorance to blame instead of religion?

Religions that are 'promised gift based' (ie heaven) fosters an "I'm right you're not" thinking which breeds hatred IMO. These religions tend to feed off of ignorance.
Not that's it 100% necessary for them to work 'together', but it's almost a symbiotic relationship. It's like coffee: coffee is fine by itself, but add sugar and cream, and it get better.
Religion is fine by itself, but add hatred and ignorance to it and it becomes 'better' (better being relative those the believers, of course).

does Islam play a particularly responsible role in the culture of terrorism?

What's reasonable? Seems that definition is left to the person answering as no definition is provided. Thus, YES, it is reasonable in the culture of terrorism. However, islam isn't unique in that way. Anything humans are involved with can, eventually, be used for evil - for terrorism
However, one's terrorism may not be another's terrorism.
So, with almost anything 'religious' it depends on the person asked.

[dianaiad]

[Replying to post 16 by Cain]

Religion should be kept out of sporting events and politics and school and . . . well, everything, it harbors hatred and contempt, it breeds guilt and jealousy.

Man..!!!! Did you read this before you posted?

Moderator Comment

Careful with the one-liners, especially those which do not advance the conversation and can be seen as insulting.

Please review the Rules.


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[heavensgate]

[Replying to post 23 by dianaiad]

Sorry about that chief. But I was responding to Cains voluminous tirade of three lines. I thought the words I chose would have made one think of the double standard in his comment.
I will try to perhaps point out those errors in a more constructive way in future.

[Artur Axmann]

[Replying to post 1 by Danmark]

Ignorance ,hate, & religion made bombing Baghdad so much easier, plausible and easier to digest.

Still looking for those Weapons of Mass Destruction; And I have the greatest faith they will find them in Tehran.Someday! We will overcome someday.....

[heavensgate]

[Replying to post 21 by Danmark]

This is my very point, Pinker ignores somehow the very foundations behind some of Eisners findings. That is that the reformation actually reformed some of mans behaviour.
I would have responded sooner but the moderator put me off.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 21 by Danmark]

This is my very point, Pinker ignores somehow the very foundations behind some of Eisners findings. That is that the reformation actually reformed some of mans behaviour.
I would have responded sooner but the moderator put me off.

The pattern of violence, and for example slavery, don't seem to have been affected one whit by 'the Reformation.' In terms of overall world wide violence, cruelty and wars, what is your statistical basis for crediting 'the reformation' with this change. The chart published in this subtopic shows a significant drop off after WWI. Do you you credit 'the Reformation' with that?

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 21 by Danmark]

This is my very point, Pinker ignores somehow the very foundations behind some of Eisners findings. That is that the reformation actually reformed some of mans behaviour.
I would have responded sooner but the moderator put me off.

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[Divine Insight]

Can't we just get rid of ALL these evil Abrahamic religions? Think how pleasant life would be?

I agree that this is what needs to be done.

The question is, "How can this be accomplished?"

My idea was to try to convince Christians to give it up and acknowledge it for the absurd myth that it is. The reason I pick on Christians is because most Christians are from highly developed countries that are advanced in education and "hopefully" intelligence.

If the intelligent countries would toss in the towel on these absurd mythologies then we would be in a far better position to be setting an example for the more backward countries that preach Islamic extremism.

We're never going to convince Muslims to toss in the towel on Allah and the Qur'an as long as we're standing here holding up the equally ridiculous Jesus and the Bible. They both have got to go.

As long as the more advanced technological civilizations continue to cling to the absurdity of worshiping the demigod Jesus as if that makes sense, then there really is no hope for the world.

It's truly sad that seemingly otherwise intelligence people continue to cling to such absurd ancient mythologies. It's actually surreal.

I think it just proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are indeed just highly evolved great apes who still just think like monkeys in many ways.

[heavensgate]

[Replying to post 21 by Danmark]

This is my very point, Pinker ignores somehow the very foundations behind some of Eisners findings. That is that the reformation actually reformed some of mans behaviour.
I would have responded sooner but the moderator put me off.

The pattern of violence, and for example slavery, don't seem to have been affected one whit by 'the Reformation.' In terms of overall world wide violence, cruelty and wars, what is your statistical basis for crediting 'the reformation' with this change. The chart published in this subtopic shows a significant drop off after WWI. Do you you credit 'the Reformation' with that?

Only two points here.
Tell me, historically, who was the driving force behind the abolition of slavery and what was his religion?
Secondly, in an evolutionary scenario as Pinker tries to paint it, how does evolution, even in the field of social/moral developments make us suddenly more socially responsible overnight. Sometimes man you can have so much honey at one time the thought of it makes you sick. Same with war.
Other respondents have ably pointed out the various factors that contribute to those stats. None of them are that we are becoming nicer generally.