End Times Prophecy --Are we there yet?

[kctheshootinfool]

Are we there yet?

Ever since Christ lived, people have been predicting the end of the world -- the second coming of Christ. End-times prophecy is running rampant today, maybe even moreso today than in years past. Most Biblical scholars believe all the prophecies before Jesus' second coming have been fulfulled, and the current "signs of the times" are a full indication that the end -- i.e., the rapture, tribulation, and the second coming -- are likely within our lifetime, even within the next decade or two.

50 years ago Israel became it's own nation. The european union is believed to be the 'rise of the revived roman empire', from which the antichrist will come. The euro-dollar is believed to be the mark of the one-world currency, China and Russia's rise to power is believed to be the fortold kings of the north and east in Revelation and Daniel. Now, this conflict with Iran's nuclear program is believed to possibly mark the beginning of the attack on Israel from Persia.

Of course, there were those who believed Hitler was the antichrist. Many leaders of the past have been mistaken for the antichrist as well. So obviously our radar isnt very accurate.

This is not limited to Christianity. Others also believe the fact that the Mayan calendar ends in December, 2012 indicates an end to the world (at least as we know it).

The Bible says we will not know the day or the hour, not even the angels will know, but it does warn us to be watchful for the signs. So, from a religious perspective or otherwise, are we really looking at the beginning of the end? If so, how close are we? Or, is the analysis of today's "signs" just as erroneous or meaningless as the signs of the past?

[Wyvern]

50 years ago Israel became it's own nation. The european union is believed to be the 'rise of the revived roman empire', from which the antichrist will come. The euro-dollar is believed to be the mark of the one-world currency, China and Russia's rise to power is believed to be the fortold kings of the north and east in Revelation and Daniel. Now, this conflict with Iran's nuclear program is believed to possibly mark the beginning of the attack on Israel from Persia.

I remember hearing somewhere that all the prophesies for the second coming were fulfilled by the tenth century. The holy roman empire was around, king Canute had formed a nordic empire for the kings of the north part, the chinese had their empire, the crusades had taken jerusalem which would make persia the closest of the caliphates to counterattack.

This is not limited to Christianity. Others also believe the fact that the Mayan calendar ends in December, 2012 indicates an end to the world (at least as we know it).

I wouldn't put much credence in the mayan calendar, after all they can somehow predict the end of the world but couldn't predict their own downfall.

[HughDP]

Religions have always had a gloomy outlook on end times, constantly predicting them throughout history. At some point - be it in 10 years or 10 million years - one of them will just happen to be right.

Today's modern prophets explain it in different terms - such a global warming, nuclear winter, meteorite strike etc. - but predict it they do.

I can remember reading one argument that states the very fact that we are here now means that in all probablity we are in a population peak, so a population decline is imminent, possibly due to a cataclysmic event.

Religions could be seen to have an 'agenda' relating to end times as the fear of judgement in those time can be used as powerful marketing tool, as can a religion's perceived predictive abilities.

are we really looking at the beginning of the end?

Yes, we've been looking at the beginning of the end since, well, the beginning. It gets closer all the time in the same way that after birth, we proceed inexorably closer to death each day.

I don't personally place any more weight on religious predictions than any others: they are all either educated guesses or marketing pitches. If one particular religion was to persuade me of its predictive prowess - perhaps by giving me the next set of lottery numbers - I'd pay a bit more attention to it (albeit from a beach in the Maldives). Alas that hasn't happened yet.

Meteor strike seems to me to be the most likely event to cause the entire population to be obliterated in any near-future timescale (i.e not the billions of years we have to wait for the sun to expand and fry us). If it obliterates the entire population there will of course be nobody around to say "I told you so" but, if there was, I'm sure various religions would somehow manage to interpret their texts to claim they predicted it.

[kctheshootinfool]

Religions could be seen to have an 'agenda' relating to end times as the fear of judgement in those time can be used as powerful marketing tool, as can a religion's perceived predictive abilities.

Something I have always wondered myself as an agnostic. Seems VERY reasonable, considering that fear has always been a successful tool in 'recruiting' people for anything. I'm a Christian now, and can admit that all the end-times hype of today looks very convincing, but with that said, I'm sure the world during WWI and WWII looked pretty convincing to, in addition to all troubled times throughout modern history.

Meteor strike seems to me to be the most likely event to cause the entire population to be obliterated in any near-future timescale (i.e not the billions of years we have to wait for the sun to expand and fry us). If it obliterates the entire population there will of course be nobody around to say "I told you so" but, if there was, I'm sure various religions would somehow manage to interpret their texts to claim they predicted it.

Maybe , but if the Bible is accurate about what will happen in the end, the entire planet will not be annihilated at one time.

THere is supposed to be another massive solar storm in 2011, which if powerful enough, they say could bring down power grids, contaminate water, and spread disease, bringing civil societies into anarchy, etc. Basically, a LARGE-scale version of what happened in New Orleans for the first few days before the military took over.

This is the kind of global anarchy that end-times prophets refer to in regards to the tribulation period (when the antichrist is around).

The hurricane, windstorm, and earthquakes activity, flooding is more intense and frequent now than it has been in a long while. An earthquake is what caused the tsunami in India. This heightened level of weather activity around the globe is referenced (in abstract terms, of course) in the Bible. Of course, this activity is cyclic, and some of these major events occur every few hundred years anyway. The weather, alone, is certainly no indication of anything, but if everything else seems to fall in place, then these weather patterns COULD be another sign referred to in the Bible.

[kctheshootinfool]

I remember hearing somewhere that all the prophesies for the second coming were fulfilled by the tenth century. The holy roman empire was around, king Canute had formed a nordic empire for the kings of the north part, the chinese had their empire, the crusades had taken jerusalem which would make persia the closest of the caliphates to counterattack.

Can't be true, entirely. One of the signs was that Israel would finally become a state. The Israelites never had there OWN nation until 1948, when we established Israel and vowed to defend them.

[Cathar1950]

I think that is the nature of apocalyptic writings and thinking.
When the stuff was being created times were bad and it often seems like the end.

[HughDP]

THere is supposed to be another massive solar storm in 2011, which if powerful enough, they say could bring down power grids, contaminate water, and spread disease, bringing civil societies into anarchy, etc. Basically, a LARGE-scale version of what happened in New Orleans for the first few days before the military took over.

This is the kind of global anarchy that end-times prophets refer to in regards to the tribulation period (when the antichrist is around).

The hurricane, windstorm, and earthquakes activity, flooding is more intense and frequent now than it has been in a long while. An earthquake is what caused the tsunami in India. This heightened level of weather activity around the globe is referenced (in abstract terms, of course) in the Bible. Of course, this activity is cyclic, and some of these major events occur every few hundred years anyway. The weather, alone, is certainly no indication of anything, but if everything else seems to fall in place, then these weather patterns COULD be another sign referred to in the Bible.

Yes it could all be some Biblical sign, but I have no idea how we determine whether it is or whether it's just a collection of predictions that we can, if we choose, fit to events somehow.

I could say now that there will be an evil force arising in the west and an evil force arising in the east, followed by 40 of god's years of war. Then the elements of the Earth will rise against us in unison and verily the end days will be upon us. But salvation will be found in a good force from the south.

If I wait long enough, somebody somewhere will be able to fit that into happenings. Who knows, this post might be uncovered one day long in the future and I'll be proclaimed a prophet.

I think what I'm saying is that at this moment I am not convinced that the Bible contains any predictions that lend it any greater authority than any other set of predictions. I would want divinely inspired predictions to be much more convincing.

However, let's for one moment assume I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and that I want to know about it's predictions a bit more precisely. The first problem I have is the vast range of interpretations of Biblical prophecies that are available. Better scholars than me can't seem to reach agreement as to what's happening and when.

So what I'm left with is the knowledge that some sort or armageddon will happen, but I have no idea when. And that's pretty much what I know as a non-Christian anyway.

Now if I am a Christian, I am already doing what I can to be 'saved' and I have no reason to make any lifestyle changes (it could happen in 1 year or 10,000 years) unless someone proves that it'll all happen on, say, a week Tuesday.

As far as I understand it, we can't avert Biblical armageddon, merely ensure we're picked for the squad that's going to paradise, which Christians are doing anyway.

So my conclusion - which I've come to in a roundabout, rambling way - is that the only useful predictions are ones that we can either avert or have a definitive date to them.

[McCulloch]

...
So my conclusion - which I've come to in a roundabout, rambling way - is that the only useful predictions are ones that we can either avert or have a definitive date to them.

Hugh,
You are being a complete killjoy. What fun is it to have apocalyptic literature if you cannot use it to predict dire consequences in the near future for those who are not part of your in group?

[HughDP]

...
So my conclusion - which I've come to in a roundabout, rambling way - is that the only useful predictions are ones that we can either avert or have a definitive date to them.

Hugh,
You are being a complete killjoy. What fun is it to have apocalyptic literature if you cannot use it to predict dire consequences in the near future for those who are not part of your in group?

Quite true. Having declared myself a prophet in that post (are there other qualifications?) I now feel I'll be looked upon favourably when the four horsemen trample the rest of you down.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if you are in deep, deep trouble. I might be able to put a word in if you like.

[indjohn]

Unfortunately many prophecy teachers have done much to cloud the issues of the last days. However, if you apply common sense to the prophesies of the Bible you will be surprised to find out that there are some points that everybody seems to be missing and I do not know why. As far as predicting the time of the end here is a key scripture.
Mt 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Mt 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Mt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Of course the figtree putting on leaves can very well be Israel being reconstituted in 1948. However when does the generation pass away? In theological mumbo jumbo a generation has been made to be 40 years but what about common sense. Just think of it this way, has the generation that saw the first world war pass away? Of course not. There are many people over 90 and even 100 years old they all saw WWI. That generation is still around. Also think of this, medicine and the biological sciences are advancing every day. What if a breakthrough happens and we are successful in prolonging human life passed the apparent limit of 120 years? There can be people that saw Israel's reconstitution several hundreds of years in the future. Another point to consider is that if God is merciful towards man as it is apparent in the New Testament isn't he going to extend the opportunity of salvation by lengthening the years of the last generation?
Bottom line, common sense dictates that we can well have many decades to go before the end prophesied by the Bible.

...
So my conclusion - which I've come to in a roundabout, rambling way - is that the only useful predictions are ones that we can either avert or have a definitive date to them.

Hugh,
You are being a complete killjoy. What fun is it to have apocalyptic literature if you cannot use it to predict dire consequences in the near future for those who are not part of your in group?

Quite true. Having declared myself a prophet in that post (are there other qualifications?) I now feel I'll be looked upon favourably when the four horsemen trample the rest of you down.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if you are in deep, deep trouble. I might be able to put a word in if you like.