Pesky Russkis

[2ndRateMind]

So, Russians lie. All the time. Whatever you hear from official Russian sources is untrue.

But why?

Why is it that the Russian establishment feels it to be to their advantage to lie, and lie constantly, and so blatantly that no intelligent individual could ever believe anything they say? Is it that they fear the West will invade them? Or is it just that they know the current regime to be immoral, and that if they do not maintain their current facade of propaganda, that regime is doomed?

Best wishes, 2RM.

[bluethread]

First, they do not always lie. They lie when it is to their advantage. Our government does the same thing. It is called statescraft. The only difference is that we have a free press. So, it is easier to tell when our people are lying. For the Russian's there is no down side to lying. I they are caught in a lie, they just deny it. What are you going to do?

[Monta]

First, they do not always lie. They lie when it is to their advantage. Our government does the same thing. It is called statescraft.
The only difference is that we have a free press. So, it is easier to tell when our people are lying. For the Russian's there is no down side to lying. I they are caught in a lie, they just deny it. What are you going to do?

At least we agree that they all lie when it suits them.

I have questions about free press and that 'they' lie more than we do.

If yu have free press yu have free speech but the facts are not there. I often read about speakers are cancelled at the last minute, book signing is cancelled because of the threats. You wonder why is this allowed, where's the law? Above all is free speech kind of a useless mantra which makes us feel good but that's all it does?

Do 'they' lie more than we do? We know this Russohobia has been going of for ages and when they are accused, they ask for some evidence, something to show which I think is the right thing to do. After 12 months no evidence about Trump election interference; and they sill deny it.

[imhereforyou]

So, Russians lie. All the time. Whatever you hear from official Russian sources is untrue.

But why?

Why is it that the Russian establishment feels it to be to their advantage to lie, and lie constantly, and so blatantly that no intelligent individual could ever believe anything they say? Is it that they fear the West will invade them? Or is it just that they know the current regime to be immoral, and that if they do not maintain their current facade of propaganda, that regime is doomed?

Best wishes, 2RM.

Everyone lies at some point. Nationality doesn't seem to change that.
Invading or not, I've always wondered why so many leaders feel the need to spend money and resources on weapons of offense more than education, healthcare, infrastructure, etc.
Surely people need protected but why all the offensive weapons? Is everyone afraid everyone else is going to invade them for no reason? Maybe in the 4th century (or another old age) but surely in today's world with almost instant media coverage and social media reporting there would be worldwide condemnation and accountability for people?
Wishful thinking perhaps....

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 2 by bluethread]
[Replying to post 3 by Monta]
[Replying to post 4 by imhereforyou]

It just seems to me that the Russian regime does not only lie when it is to their direct advantage, but as a matter of general policy.

As for western democratic governments lieing, well, maybe so. Sometimes, in extremis. But more often weaselly politicians, keen to hold on to their seats in parliament, do not actually lie, and if they do, and are found out, tend to lose those seats. But if they were too honest about their positions, they would risk alienating people who might otherwise support them with their votes. So, they just do not tell 'the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth'. And we get this coded language, such that a phrase like 'We currently have no plans to...', actually means 'We are going to, just the moment we have the opportunity to put such plans in place...'

I suspect that this attitude has its roots in our Christian heritage, that 'thou shalt not bear false witness'. While the Russian regime's accidental relationship with any kind of truth at all has its roots in its totalitarian, officially atheist, recent past.

But Oh! What a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive!

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 5 by 2ndRateMind]

I read these posts and wonder whether posters here ever read alternative media.
As they don't necessarily print gov. approved news alone this is good place to read the 'other side' of the story.

To be convinced that Russians love to lie, do yu follow them on RT to prove it so for yourself. I do, I want to know what the other side is saying and not listen to others telling me what he said. Recently he held this long speech where 900 foreign journalists were invited. Questions are not pre-organised. To me this speaks of open society.

I read only few months ago that America had practically flattened NK in 1950s.
They want to protect themselves and good luck to them.
In this light we can understand NK for their stand.

[bluethread]

[Replying to post 5 by 2ndRateMind]

I read these posts and wonder whether posters here ever read alternative media.
As they don't necessarily print gov. approved news alone this is good place to read the 'other side' of the story.

I was just about to post the same thing to you in relation to your post #3. In the middle of the last century, television had an ologopoly on broadcast news. However, even then there was alternative print media. Since the advent of TBS and FOX, followed by the internet explosion, the "mainstream media" does not have the power it used to have. Attempts to silence speakers and Alinsky tactics are now displayed for all to see. In fact, some conservatives are saying, "To heck with this." and engaging in Alinsky tactics themselves. So, to quote the X-Files, "The truth is out there." You just have to take the time to sort through it.

Regarding Russian interference, the only thing that has been found so far is that Russia has taken part in our free press. Yes, some people have been influenced by Russian propaganda, but, for the most part, the biggest influence has been in much of the press sturring things up with wild speculation and paranoia. To much of the press, the fact that the Russians are permitted to publish information is a greater threat than the information itself. If the Russians sucker someone into openning an e-mail and mine information from that person's computer, does that make that information any less true? Also, publishing that information is not the same as "hacking" our election system. It is simply attempting to influence our elections via the free press. If you don't like it, secure your information, or, better yet, don't engsage in nefarious back room politics.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 6 by Monta]
[Replying to post 7 by bluethread]

Maybe, the grass seems greener on the other side of the fence. Just make sure it isn't polluted, before you commit to jumping that fence.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Wootah]

I read an interesting analysis that Russia is just a big oil company and so is trying to get higher oil prices and that we should interpret their actions in that light.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 7 by bluethread]

"Also, publishing that information is not the same as "hacking" our election system. It is simply attempting to influence our elections via the free press. If you don't like it, secure your information, or, better yet, don't engsage in nefarious back room politics."

According to Russians US spends huge amount of $$ trying to effect their elections.
US admits it - 'we do it to spread democracy' and that's justified?
Silly games I'd say.

We have State election soon and anyone I asked already knows who they are going to vote for. You gather information continously year after year. As if someone will come say vote for John because he is a good guy, and yu jump for it?
You'd be silly to fall for it.
99% population are not silly.