What do we do with those who want to kill us?

[marco]

Anjem Choudary, referred to as one of Britain's most dangerous Islamic radicalisers, has been released from prison having served half his 5-year sentence for encouraging people to join ISIS. Obviously the authorities will place expensive controls on his supervision but the question is: Whose safety is more important?


What can we do with people who educcate others to go out and kill? Jesus would say show mercy and forgive on seventy times seven occasions if necessary.


Should we be tougher with those who want to harm society? How?

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

Tough love.

Because we love you (Choudary), and all our neighbours, we cannot allow you license to commit, or incite, crimes against them. That is good for them, obviously, but also for you, since, come the end of days, when all truths are known, you will not be held accountable for crimes you have not committed, and harms you have not inflicted, but without our intervention would have done.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

[Replying to post 1 by marco]

Tough love.

Because we love you (Choudary), and all our neighbours, we cannot allow you license to commit, or incite, crimes against them. That is good for them, obviously, but also for you, since, come the end of days, when all truths are known, you will not be held accountable for crimes you have not committed, and harms you have not inflicted, but without our intervention would have done.

Best wishes, 2RM.

Is a wrong reason for doing the right thing acceptable? As a boy I recall a catechism question that asked whether repentance because we deserved hell and not heaven was acceptable? Apparently it was, then.

Execution may be extreme and open us to many charges but apart from in Bible tales corpses do not stir, and so cause no damage. Vengeance may well be God's but the protection of society has been delegated to those who are forced to live in it.

There is no molecule of me that would express "love" for such a person. The road to a protected society is not always served best by attempting to pave it with Christ's good intentions.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 3 by marco]

Uh huh. But living according to Jesus direct commandments: 'Love God', and 'Love each other'*, is what Christians are called to do. And, I dare say, if everyone did the same, whatever their tradition, the world might be a considerably better place.

Meanwhile, we must live in the world as it is, and that means dealing, firmly but fairly, with they that wish us harm. But for those of us redeemed by Christ, it is hard to deny the same possibility of redemption to others by executing them, however much they now may hate us.

Best wishes, 2RM.

*Mark 12: 30-31 KJV and Matthew 5:44 KJV

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 4 by 2ndRateMind]

Putting criminals in prison is loving.

We certainly stop importing people that want to kill us.

We need to end the narcissism inherent in believing we are so wonderful and capable and good that we can cope with all other cultures.

[marco]

Uh huh. But living according to Jesus direct commandments: 'Love God', and 'Love each other'*, is what Christians are called to do. And, I dare say, if everyone did the same, whatever their tradition, the world might be a considerably better place.

We have a prima facie duty to protect the defenceless, regardless of some rule that we would normally apply. Christ advocated going by the spirit rather than the letter of the law. So applying love and forgiveness in situations that cause great harm to others, is misguided, and wrong. There are situations where two moral duties are in conflict and we must choose wisely.

Meanwhile, we must live in the world as it is, and that means dealing, firmly but fairly, with they that wish us harm. But for those of us redeemed by Christ, it is hard to deny the same possibility of redemption to others by executing them, however much they now may hate us.]


We must deal firmly and fairly with them that wish us harm, cartainly, and that may mean a temporary abandonment of the passage of love from us to them - at least until we deal with the situation. Jesus did talk of millstones for those who who hurt his least brethren. It is not for humanity to pre-empt the judgments of God by freeing terrorists from extreme punishment. Were we to observe this odd principle, we would cheerfully refrain from shooting to kill when terrorism threaens to annihilate a group of plane passenhgers.


The question is: who is more guilty? The one who is instructed to detonate a bomb or his instructor? I think love is misplaced in such circumstances.

[marco]

We certainly stop importing people that want to kill us.

We need to end the narcissism inherent in believing we are so wonderful and capable and good that we can cope with all other cultures.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions, such as those of Angela Merkel who invited millions of people to enter Europe, without regard to what their intentions might be. Of course the majority might be poor, displaced souls and it is good and charitable to protect them, but first one must differentiate between terrorism and need. Good intentions can have bad consequences, as the cities of Europe are now experiencing.

[2ndRateMind]

It is not for humanity to pre-empt the judgments of God by freeing terrorists from extreme punishment. Were we to observe this odd principle, we would cheerfully refrain from shooting to kill when terrorism threaens to annihilate a group of plane passenhgers.

Who said anything about preempting the judgment of God? And, if the situation is such that it is necessary to kill to protect the innocent from immediate harm, then that is what, regrettably, need be done. But, this is not the case with Choudary.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[marco]

It is not for humanity to pre-empt the judgments of God by freeing terrorists from extreme punishment. Were we to observe this odd principle, we would cheerfully refrain from shooting to kill when terrorism threaens to annihilate a group of plane passenhgers.

Who said anything about preempting the judgment of God? And, if the situation is such that it is necessary to kill to protect the innocent from immediate harm, then that is what, regrettably, need be done. But, this is not the case with Choudary.

Best wishes, 2RM.

It is technically not the case with Choudary. My point is that he is effectively pointing a gun at innocent people. In any event, releasing him from confinement where he can do less harm, is hardly wise. Doubtless he will have found found fodder for his ideas in prison.

I see that in France, along the same lines of prevention before disaster happens, the banning of the burqa in public places - a sensible measure - has been condemned by the UN. It is always easier to do nothing.

[2ndRateMind]

It is technically not the case with Choudary. My point is that he is effectively pointing a gun at innocent people.

Technically or actually? There is a difference.

I'm inclined to err on the side of (legal) free speech, and demolishing the arguments of extremists deliberately, totally, publicly, and eternally.

Best wishes, 2RM.