Does God use the forces of nature to punish us?

Righteous Indignation · Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 am

This post is similar to my previous post which didn’t pass muster, so let’s give it another try.

Many believe that epidemics, hurricanes, earthquakes, tornadoes, volcanoes, floods, tidal waves, and even lightning are punishments from God. I have heard such comments from Pat Robertson , Jerry Falwell, and the Westboro Baptist Church to name a few.

My question is: why would an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient being need to resort to such crude methods? These disasters kill innocent human beings along with the evil ones. Would a loving just father kill his good children to punish his bad?

When bad things happen it’s normal to seek answers but sometimes there are none. I have often heard, "Why did they have to die?" Sometimes there is no why, people just die. It is wrong of others to take advantage of this; claiming that God is punishing us because we are not doing what Pat Robertson , Jerry Falwell, and the Westboro Baptist Church want.

Aqualung · Post by **Aqualung** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:40 pm

Righteous Indignation wrote:
Aqualung wrote:I don't believe he does. In the story of the flood, God uses a flood to destroy the earth because all flesh was corrupt, and the earth was corrupt. Then, he promised he would never use a flood to destroy people again, but he never promised the earth would never get corrupted. I think extreme weather conditions and stuff like that are just the result of a corrupt earth.
What does "corrupt earth" mean? My first guess would be it has something to do with a belief that people are not as good as they used to be, but you could also be referring to pollution and/or global warming. Then again, you might mean the earth is corrupted like a corrupted computer file. I'm just a little confused by the term.

Gen 6:11 - And the earth was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

This doesn't give much, but I tend to read "the earth was corrupt" as meaning "the earth was no longer perfect", ie, the earth was now subject to, say, earthquakes, because the technonic plates did not rub together smoothly.

Aqualung · Post by **Aqualung** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:40 pm

Righteous Indignation wrote:There seems to be a consensus that natural disasters, like what happened in New Orleans, are not caused by God. This would seem to contradict what Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have stated. Is there no one who will come to their defense?

Why would I believe them over what the Bible says?

Righteous Indignation · Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:40 am

What Aqualung wrote:
What I wrote:There seems to be a consensus that natural disasters, like what happened in New Orleans, are not caused by God. This would seem to contradict what Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have stated. Is there no one who will come to their defense?
Why would I believe them over what the Bible says?

And here we have the crux of the problem. The Bible is so full of gibberish and contradiction that it can be used to prove almost any point. There is little doubt in my mind that somewhere in the Bible Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell found justification for their beliefs. Here I’ll give an example how the Bible might be used to convince your wife of something that goes totally against standard Christian teachings. Suppose it’s been a long time since your Christian wife has, let me see how can I say it, "Put Out!" Well just dust off that old Bible and read from Ephesians 5:22 (KJV).

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

There you have it. Your wish is her command. Enjoy!

The Bible is the perfect tool for the unscrupulous and power hungry. Just find yourself a few believers and give them your version of what God(meaning you) wants them to do.

The Persnickety Platypus · Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:07 am

Interesting how God (even in the Bible) is never willing to utilize the forces of nature to help people.

Flooding the earth to wipe out all of humanity? No problem. Sending a little rain down to a parched African town where half the children are lying dead in the street from dehydration? Well...

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:42 am

No kidding, where is the rain when you need it?
I guess God just wants people to believe in him now that he seems to have vanished.

klatu · Post by **klatu** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:25 pm

A better question, but directly related, is whether God uses the 'forces' within human nature to punish mankind???

pepo1 · Post by **pepo1** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:53 am

There are visionaries to whom warnings were allegedly given, supposedly from the Virgin Mary and Jesus, that we should not believe that all natural disasters are natural.

I'm not here to discuss the merits of the authenticity of visions(e.g. Garabandal, Bayside Medjugorje, which are usually controversial and not all approved by the Catholic Church, I'm just giving another angle.

klatu · Post by **klatu** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:19 am

As some forces within human nature can also be ascribed to the 'forces of nature', considering recent scientific reports of an apocalyptic nature for the near future of the environment, notably outlined by the Stern Report just released in Great Britian, I have a few questions. Assuming even some validity to environmental fears, why do we as a humanity not have values that are sustainable? And by not having a sustainable ethical system, are we not as it now appears, by the damage we inflict upon our environment, paving the way to our own self made 'hell'? In that case what value is any religious, humanist, intellectual or other cultural label that we have given ourselves if the planets capacity for insuring our existence is coming under threat. And if we cannot stop ourselves destroying God's creation, will God stop us? And could that have anything to do with final judgement?

Confused · Post by **Confused** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:08 pm

If we ascribe any known natural disaster to an act of God, then we negate the loving, just God the NT has preached. With any disaster, innocent people die as well as guilty. If God is just, then he wouldn't punish the innocent right? Or is not considered punishment if the innocent get to ascend to heaven with Him? No, I think that might be considered selfish. And the NT God isn't selfish right?

klatu · Post by **klatu** » Tue Nov 07, 2006 5:35 pm

Your comment presumes that our 'theological' understanding of Christianity is correct? That is a question which history has yet to answer. But if history has misunderstood and misinterpreted the new covenant, [remember all those passages about false teaching, antiChrists, etc etc....somebody must be wrong] then the answer to the title question of this thread, Does God use........, would of course be yes!

Debating Christianity and Religion