Atlanta spa killings

Current issues and things in the news

Moderator: Moderators

Online
User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 18582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 212 times
Contact:

Atlanta spa killings

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Another incident in Atlanta involving massage parlors, sex addiction, and Christianity:
Police arrested a suspect after eight people were killed in shootings at three separate massage parlors in the Atlanta area Tuesday, March 16. Now the FBI has joined the investigation.

Two spas were in Atlanta and one was in Cherokee County. Police said six of the eight victims were Asian women; Cherokee County officials confirmed to 11Alive there is one suspect for all of the shootings.
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/cr ... 34bcd27633

"He apparently has an issue. What he considers a sex addiction and sees these locations as something that allows him to go to these places and it's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," Baker said.

6 of the 8 killed were Asian women.

"He was pretty much fed up and kind of at the end of his rope. Yesterday was a really bad day for him and this is what he did," Cherokee County Sheriff’s Office Capt. Jay Baker said Wednesday.

For debate:
- Was this rampage racially motivated or a result of sexual addiction?
- Can this incident be considered to be just "having a really bad day"?

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 264 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #2

Post by Miles »

otseng wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:45 pm Another incident in Atlanta involving massage parlors, sex addiction, and Christianity:
Police arrested a suspect after eight people were killed in shootings at three separate massage parlors in the Atlanta area Tuesday, March 16. Now the FBI has joined the investigation.

Two spas were in Atlanta and one was in Cherokee County. Police said six of the eight victims were Asian women; Cherokee County officials confirmed to 11Alive there is one suspect for all of the shootings.
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/cr ... 34bcd27633

"He apparently has an issue. What he considers a sex addiction and sees these locations as something that allows him to go to these places and it's a temptation for him that he wanted to eliminate," Baker said.

6 of the 8 killed were Asian women.

"He was pretty much fed up and kind of at the end of his rope. Yesterday was a really bad day for him and this is what he did," Cherokee County Sheriff’s Office Capt. Jay Baker said Wednesday.

For debate:
- Was this rampage racially motivated or a result of sexual addiction?
- Can this incident be considered to be just "having a really bad day"?
- As far as I know, right now no one has enough information to confidently say the rampage was racially motivated, the result of sexual addiction, both, or something else.

However, according to an article in the Washington Post it seems race was not a factor, but rather a the conflict between his sexual needs, which included visits to massage parlors for sex and an obsession with pornography, and the exceptionally conservative religious teachings he was exposed to at the Crabapple Southern Baptist Church in Georgia. The article, named A life turned tumultuous can be read on Kindle.

- Yeah, if I was in charge of the sheriffs department I wouldn't let Baker speak for the office ether. One asinine remark is enough.


.

User avatar
Purple Knight
Guru
Posts: 2117
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2020 6:00 pm
Has thanked: 671 times
Been thanked: 407 times

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #3

Post by Purple Knight »

Sex. Gambling. Drugs. Alcohol.

If it was motivated by sex addiction I can't say I blame him much. At that point he's the addict who kills his dealer because his dealer ruined his life.

There is a reason these things are often either illegal or tightly controlled, and it's because it has these effects on people. If I don't have the tendency to get addicted, good for me, (and I don't... but) it's still insanely selfish for me to tell others that these things should be legal (in the context of sex I'm talking specifically about pay-for, on-tap sex) so I can have pleasure at the cost of peoples' ruined lives.

This is why I can't stand libertarians. They want prostitution, crack, everything legal, because to them, an ounce of pleasure outweighs peoples' whole lives.

Is prostitution illegal in Atlanta? If so, these Asian massage parlours (everyone bloody knows what they are) are breaking the law and in this instance they simply reaped the consequences. That doesn't mean the murderer shouldn't be punished but it means I'm not going to feel sorry for people who broke a law and ruined somebody's life because their profits are more important than the reasons the law exists in the first place, which as far as I'm concerned are good ones. They found that out.

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 264 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #4

Post by Miles »

Purple Knight wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:44 pm Sex. Gambling. Drugs. Alcohol.

If it was motivated by sex addiction I can't say I blame him much. At that point he's the addict who kills his dealer because his dealer ruined his life.

There is a reason these things are often either illegal or tightly controlled, and it's because it has these effects on people.
So that's why so many people who visit massage parlors end up killing almost everyone in the shop every day. Image

This is why I can't stand libertarians. They want prostitution, crack, everything legal, because to them, an ounce of pleasure outweighs peoples' whole lives.
Now that's funny! Nothing like gross exaggeration to tickle my funny bone. Thanks. :approve:


.

Online
User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 18582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 212 times
Contact:

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #5

Post by otseng »

I think one thing for sure is the motivations are myriad and complicated. Sexual addiction I believe is definitely a component that led to the murders and race is a part of the equation. But, I think there are other components that are not being discussed, esp by the police or the media. The trigger event seems to be the fact he was kicked out of his house the prior night. If he was not kicked out of the house, I doubt the fuse would've been lit. The next day, he bought a gun and went out to "get rid of his temptations." So, why was he kicked out of his house? It seemed to be related to Long's sex addiction and his parents got fed up with it. But, can we fault young men to be addicted to porn when it's so easily accessible? And to get a special massage, all you have to do is just drive down the street. In movies and games, the prevailing way to solve problems is just to shoot them. So, Long bought a gun and shot the problem.

Regarding Baker's comment about it "being a bad day". I doubt he was intentionally being callous about the situation, but I believe it revealed an unconscious attitude he had about the massage parlor victims. He did not consider them to be people. If they were really people, killing them would not be considered just having a bad day. Instead of them being people, they are rather objects for sexual gratification. Lest we think Baker is the only one who thinks this way, I believe it is much larger problem. Even Ravi Zacharias felt this way to a degree. And I would say most men also feel this way about women (think MeToo movement). And add to this the race factor where some people consider Asian women to be more exotic.

Singling out race as the motivation is highly simplifying the issue. Yes, I believe it is a factor, but there are other important factors, many of which we don't want to talk about.

Online
User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 18582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 212 times
Contact:

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #6

Post by otseng »

There is a Christian component to all this too. Long was a member of Crabapple First Baptist. They have replaced their website with the following statement:
On Tuesday evening, March 16, 2021, we heard the tragic news of the brutal murders of 8 individuals, six of whom were of Asian descent, and of the aggravated assault of one victim who survived. We were absolutely devastated at this senseless loss of life and callous disregard for human beings created in the image of God. We grieve for the victims and their families, and we continue to pray for all of those affected by this heinous crime as they deal with unimaginable pain and sorrow.

Furthermore, we were absolutely distraught when we found out that the shooter was a member of our congregation. The Long family have been members of our church for many years. We watched Aaron grow up and accepted him into church membership when he made his own profession of faith in Jesus Christ. These unthinkable and egregious murders directly contradict his own confession of faith in Jesus and the gospel.

We want to be clear that this extreme and wicked act is nothing less than rebellion against our Holy God and His Word. Aaron’s actions are antithetical to everything that we believe and teach as a church. In the strongest possible terms, we condemn the actions of Aaron Long as well as his stated reasons for carrying out this wicked plan. The shootings were a total repudiation of our faith and practice, and such actions are completely unacceptable and contrary to the gospel.

No blame can be placed upon the victims. He alone is responsible for his evil actions and desires. The women that he solicited for sexual acts are not responsible for his perverse sexual desires nor do they bear any blame in these murders. These actions are the result of a sinful heart and depraved mind for which Aaron is completely responsible.

We have been in complete cooperation with law enforcement, and we pray for justice to be done. We pray for both earthly justice and divine justice.

We ask that all Christians would join us in praying for the families of the victims, the communities affected, the Long family, and the Crabapple Church family. We believe in a Holy and Righteous God who abhors evil and will judge all sin in perfect justice. We also believe that this Holy God so loved the world that He sent His only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

We are thankful for the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ that offers forgiveness and new life to all who truly repent of their sins and place their faith in Christ alone for salvation. We are thankful for the grace and mercy of the Lord that gives us strength to endure in times of extreme suffering. We are also thankful for faithful friends, pastors, and partners in ministry who have covered us in prayer and have reached out with support and encouragement.

Our hearts are broken at this devastating loss of life. We will continue to grieve, mourn, and pray for the families and loved ones of the victims. Finally, we deeply regret the fear and pain Asian-Americans are experiencing as a result of Aaron’s inexcusable actions.


We also wanted to provide answers to many of the questions that we have received since this tragedy occurred:

Q. Was Robert Aaron Long a member at Crabapple First Baptist Church?

A. Yes. These actions do not in any way reflect the biblical character of a true follower of Jesus Christ and member of His Church. In accordance with the biblical pattern and our church bylaws, we have started the process of church discipline to remove him from membership since we can no longer affirm that he is truly a regenerate believer in Jesus Christ.


Q. Did Robert Aaron Long’s father work for the church?

A. Robert Aaron Long’s father has never been employed by Crabapple First Baptist Church.


Q. Do you teach that acts of violence are acceptable against certain ethnicities or against women?

A. Absolutely not. Scripture teaches and we believe that all human beings are created in the image of God. Every person is worthy of respect. All people are equal in dignity, value, and worth. We repudiate any and all forms of misogyny and racism. We categorically reject the idea that violence is appropriate, regardless of one’s issues or motivations. Murder, especially, is a heinous evil and grievous sin. We also explicitly denounce any and all forms of hatred or violence against Asians or Asian-Americans.


Q. Do you teach that women are responsible for men’s sexual sin against them?

A. We categorically reject this idea. Each person is responsible for his or her own sin. In this case, the shooter is solely responsible for his heinous actions, not the victims who were targeted.


Q. Why did you shut down your website and social media?

A. We took down our website and social media out of an abundance of caution. We feared for the safety of members of our church community.


Q. Have you cooperated with law enforcement?

A. We have fully cooperated with law enforcement and will continue to do so. We want to aid law enforcement in any way possible so that justice is done.

We request that all press inquiries be directed to info@crabapplefbc.org.
https://www.crabapplefbc.org/

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 264 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #7

Post by Miles »

.


As more facts come out, it's becoming apparent race had nothing to do with the killings. I believe Long would have shot them if they were black, Latino, Indian, or white. As I see it, his state of mind is the result of an inordinate sexual compulsion pitted against against an unyielding, ultra-conservative regard of sex.


.

Online
User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 18582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 212 times
Contact:

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #8

Post by otseng »

Miles wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:35 am I believe Long would have shot them if they were black, Latino, Indian, or white.
I don't believe Long had a hatred towards Asians. In fact, it could even be the opposite. He might've had an affinity towards Asian women and he targeted them as a source of his temptations.
As I see it, his state of mind is the result of an inordinate sexual compulsion pitted against against an unyielding, ultra-conservative regard of sex.
I wouldn't consider a stance that porn is wrong to be an "ultra-conservative" regard of sex. But, anyways, I do agree his mental battle between his sexual appetite and external prohibitions (by his parents and the church) is a major part of the equation.

Online
User avatar
otseng
Savant
Posts: 18582
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2004 1:16 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA
Has thanked: 146 times
Been thanked: 212 times
Contact:

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #9

Post by otseng »

Ironically, it is Captain Jay Baker that is the one who has exhibited negative racial biases, not Long.
After the remarks, screenshots surfaced from a March 2020 Facebook post by Baker that promoted anti-Asian T-shirts.

"Place your order while they last," Baker wrote above the photo of two T-shirts that said, "Covid 19 IMPORTED VIRUS FROM CHY-NA."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ge ... i-n1261359

User avatar
Miles
Prodigy
Posts: 3387
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 4:19 pm
Has thanked: 264 times
Been thanked: 940 times

Re: Atlanta spa killings

Post #10

Post by Miles »

otseng wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:23 am
Miles wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:35 am I believe Long would have shot them if they were black, Latino, Indian, or white.
I don't believe Long had a hatred towards Asians. In fact, it could even be the opposite. He might've had an affinity towards Asian women and he targeted them as a source of his temptations.
As I see it, his state of mind is the result of an inordinate sexual compulsion pitted against against an unyielding, ultra-conservative regard of sex.
I wouldn't consider a stance that porn is wrong to be an "ultra-conservative" regard of sex. But, anyways, I do agree his mental battle between his sexual appetite and external prohibitions (by his parents and the church) is a major part of the equation.
I agree, but it's among many other sexual activities clumped together by his church as being sinful, some of which many people and other churches would agree are not sinful. And it's this array of sexual behaviors that I feel warrants the label "ultra-conservative."

As the article quoting his church in the Washington Post said: *

"The church makes clear it takes a strict stand against sex outside of marriage.

“We believe that God has commanded that no intimate sexual activity be engaged in outside of a marriage between a man and a woman,” the church’s bylaws state. “We believe that any form of sexual immorality, such as adultery, fornication, homosexuality, bisexual conduct, bestiality, incest, polygamy, pedophilia, pornography, or any attempt to change one’s sex, or disagreement with one’s biological sex, is sinful and offensive to God
.”


* The quote in the Washington Post here is taken from another source.)



.

Post Reply