Cancel culture

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nobspeople
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Cancel culture

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

It's the new thing, this cancel culture.
Many say this is when people demand someone be fired, a show be cancelled, a song boycotted, etc, over things said in the past. Sometimes it's a bad joke that's twenty years old while other times it's something that was said two days ago.
Wikipedia says: it "is a modern form of ostracism in which someone is thrust out of social or professional circles – whether it be online, on social media, or in person. Those subject to this ostracism are said to have been "cancelled". The expression "cancel culture" has mostly negative connotations and is commonly used in debates on free speech and censorship.

Cancel culture is a noun: a phenomenon or practice of publicly rejecting, boycotting, or ending support for particular people or groups because of their socially or morally unacceptable views or actions.

Is this a trend of here to stay?
Is there a time when this 'cancel culture' action is acceptable? A time when it's not?
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #2

Post by JoeyKnothead »

From the OP:
nobspeople wrote: ...
Cancel culture is a noun: a phenomenon or practice of publicly rejecting, boycotting, or ending support for particular people or groups because of their socially or morally unacceptable views or actions.

Is this a trend of here to stay?
'Cancel culture' is what Republicans call being held to a modicum of decency.
And it's pretty much always been around. Only now it seems to upset the Republicans who have their social media accounts cancelled - who then hop on TV, before a national / worldwide audience, to declare how "the media" is trying to silence em.
nobspeople wrote: Is there a time when this 'cancel culture' action is acceptable?
When folks are willing to invade the Capital because someone keeps lying about an election they lost.
nobspeople wrote: A time when it's not?
When the pretty thing is set to argue. Telling her to calm down in such a circumstance is apt to get me cancelled.
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #3

Post by The Barbarian »

"Cancel culture"; isn't that about the Dixie Chicks and Colin Kaepernick?

nobspeople
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #4

Post by nobspeople »

The Barbarian wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:21 pm "Cancel culture"; isn't that about the Dixie Chicks and Colin Kaepernick?
A 'lil bit!
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #5

Post by AgnosticBoy »

nobspeople wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pm Is this a trend of here to stay?
Is there a time when this 'cancel culture' action is acceptable? A time when it's not?
I don't know if the "cancel culture" is here to stay, but I tend to have a problem with it when it is pushed by one political side, whether it be the Democrats or Republicans. And it should be clear that both Republicans and Democrats have used it (in a unilateral way, often against the other side), but currently, it seems to be used more by Democrats perhaps because the mainstream media, including social media, picks up on it more. When boycott calls are all or mostly from one side, then it's often political in nature. It's not so much about the act but who does the act. And we can see that based on how it's handled given someone political party. When a Democrat says something racist, is cancel culture going after them in the same way as they would a Republican? That's one concern.

Another one of my concerns is that cancel culture can become highly impractical. Can nations of the world afford to boycott China or the Middle East (oil?), given their human rights violations? Should we use it for every morally objectionable thing? Racism, homophobic comments, pro-abortion support (given that Christians are against abortion), etc.?
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #6

Post by Purple Knight »

AgnosticBoy wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:43 pmShould we use it for every morally objectionable thing? Racism, homophobic comments, pro-abortion support (given that Christians are against abortion), etc.?
Only if you think majority = morality, because that's what it amounts to. And I have a difficult time explaining this to fellow Leftists because right now, it happens to be going their way, and I tend to think they happen to be right. But what if someone thought of cancel culture right on the cusp of the civil rights movement? What if someone had thought of it when Hitler was Time Magazine's Man of the year and nobody wanted to go to war anyway?

Let me be clear: Now that this strat is on the table, what right-wingers should do is cluster together and create areas where they have the power, and when they do that, they need to use this strat. It's an apex strat. Once it's on the table, everyone must use it or die. It's also typical of an apex strat that it makes the world suck. The world is much better for everyone if nobody does it. But you can't preclude it because people will just do it passively. It would require tyranny to root it out at that point.

What progressives need to see is that if right-wingers actually do what they should, they could get back all the power. And now that cancelling is on the table, there will never be another intellectual revolution. There will never be another 60's. There will never again be colleges full of liberals in a conservative world. Tolerating other ideas is now dead, despite the fact that there are still people trying to shock it back to life. The conditions that allowed it to live are gone. Once a feral cat or a cane toad is on the table, kiss your sub-optimal native Australian wildlife goodbye. It's all cane toads and cats now.
nobspeople wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pmIs this a trend of here to stay?
Absolutely here to stay. It's an apex strategy. In other words, if you use it, and the other guy is not using it, you win, and he loses.
nobspeople wrote: Tue May 25, 2021 1:25 pmIs there a time when this 'cancel culture' action is acceptable? A time when it's not?
What do you mean acceptable? Do you mean if it's not acceptable, we're going to, or ought to, cancel the people that use it?

I predicted this in the 90's in my high IQ group I was in, when I was first in university. Not exactly this, but very, very, very close. The sad thing is nobody took me seriously back then and they sort of laughed it off but I no longer know any of these people so I can't go gloat.

I said I thought free speech was dumb because it represents an unstable equilibrium where every idea has roughly equal power, everyone is allowed to say everything, and nobody really rocks that boat because if anyone did they'd be the one to get jumped on. But this is like a very round pebble resting atop a very round hill, and it's easily disturbed.

I said that, eventually, some ideas would get more power and we'd settle into a stable equilibrium where you could say anything, but it would be social death, and this would have a reinforcement effect making more people adopt and defend the dominant position. I didn't predict the firing and I didn't predict demanding for shows to be cancelled. I didn't think it would go that far and I suppose I thought the government would step in and at least protect people from being fired for saying the moon was made of green cheese. (Silly me; I thought free speech - freedom of other beliefs - was as important as freedom of religion.) But I did predict that there would be certain ideas you couldn't express without totally ruining your life.

Now, what I thought would happen first would be that the ideas with less power would settle into a sort of social flat-earther status where despite being nothing but opinions, and no sort of science standing for or against them, the default would just be ridicule. And I thought it wouldn't be until perhaps 95% of people held the dominant opinion that you would see any sort of ostracism, and I didn't think people would gang up to do it, but that it would happen naturally.

However, the rest I got dead right. I don't believe in freedom of speech and I never did. Freedom of speech means you have to let cancel culture run wild and consequently you have zero practical freedom of speech. I don't really care that cancel culture is generally cancelling my intellectual opponents; I want to live in a world without cancel culture and that's a world with at least some strict restrictions on speech. Publicly whipping up a mob on Facebook to get someone fired? If I'm king that's a no. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go to jail.

And if it happens naturally I address that too. If I find nobody is buying Pete's avocados because Pete thinks the world is flat, I make it so nobody knows whose avocados they are buying and yes I spend taxpayer money on this, to protect Pete.

So my ideal world where I'm king, I do not have free speech. Because cancel culture. In the 90's it didn't make sense to a single person but I hope it does now.

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Re: Cancel culture

Post #7

Post by nobspeople »

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #6]
What do you mean acceptable? Do you mean if it's not acceptable, we're going to, or ought to, cancel the people that use it?
Is there a time when CC should be used or shouldn't be used?
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:12 am [Replying to Purple Knight in post #6]
What do you mean acceptable? Do you mean if it's not acceptable, we're going to, or ought to, cancel the people that use it?
Is there a time when CC should be used or shouldn't be used?
When it's legal it should be used. It's a top-tier, apex strategy. If the other guy uses it and you don't, you lose. Saying you shouldn't use cancel culture to cancel people you don't like is like saying you shouldn't use castling in chess because it ruins the game.

When it's illegal it should not be used.

It should be illegal.

I do not believe in free speech.

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Re: Cancel culture

Post #9

Post by nobspeople »

Purple Knight wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:02 pm
nobspeople wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 9:12 am [Replying to Purple Knight in post #6]
What do you mean acceptable? Do you mean if it's not acceptable, we're going to, or ought to, cancel the people that use it?
Is there a time when CC should be used or shouldn't be used?
When it's legal it should be used. It's a top-tier, apex strategy. If the other guy uses it and you don't, you lose. Saying you shouldn't use cancel culture to cancel people you don't like is like saying you shouldn't use castling in chess because it ruins the game.

When it's illegal it should not be used.

It should be illegal.

I do not believe in free speech.
So tit-for-tat, as they say? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?
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Re: Cancel culture

Post #10

Post by Purple Knight »

nobspeople wrote: Mon Feb 21, 2022 10:17 am So tit-for-tat, as they say? What's good for the goose is good for the gander?
It's not good for anyone. It makes the world suck. The more people do it, the more the world sucks. But what you really don't want is to be a sucker in a cheater's world.

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