CRT

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nobspeople
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CRT

Post #1

Post by nobspeople »

According to Wikiledia: "Critical race theory (CRT) is a cross-disciplinary intellectual and social movement of civil-rights scholars and activists who seek to examine the intersection of race and law in the United States and to challenge mainstream American liberal approaches to racial justice."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_race_theory

In the USA, it has recently been a hot topic amongst various groups. More recently, South Dakota governor made some legal standing within her state for colleges:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gov-kristi-n ... 16757.html


For discussion:
Is CRT a legitimate means to study race and racism?
Should it be taught in public schools?
Talked about in colleges?
How does it impact your personal life (if at all)?
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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Re: CRT

Post #2

Post by AgnosticBoy »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:31 pm Is CRT a legitimate means to study race and racism?
I question if there's any one view that can explain racism given that there are cases of racism amongst non-Whites, as well. Whites might be racist for reasons that differ than the racism of Non-Whites.
nobspeople wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:31 pmShould it be taught in public schools?
Talked about in colleges?
As a theory, and not taken as the one and only truth bearing theory. Nothing should be on that level unless all or most of its areas are backed by scientific or verifiable evidence.
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Re: CRT

Post #3

Post by AgnosticBoy »

nobspeople wrote: Tue Mar 22, 2022 2:31 pm For discussion:
Is CRT a legitimate means to study race and racism?
Should it be taught in public schools?
Talked about in colleges?
How does it impact your personal life (if at all)?
One unfair conclusion by some Democrats is that not wanting to teach Critical Race Theory is just Republicans not wanting for kids to learn about race and racism. I think that's false. You can teach race and racism without involving CRT. I'm not aware of any Republican platform that is pushing to ban all topics of race and racism in schools.
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Re: CRT

Post #4

Post by The Barbarian »

I didn't know much about it, so I did some reading. Turns out, the gist of it is that blaming and shaming individual people for racism is not useful, but that addressing whatever structural racism remains in our society and institutions will be effective against that blight.

While CRT is not taught in primary or secondary public schools, the very existence of the theory in academia is a threat to racism in America precisely because it is oriented toward solving the problem. And that is why there's a frantic outcry against it on the right.

This was the practical approach made by the U.S. military in the late 1940s. The idea was to make racism unprofitable for individuals and to dismantle structural racism in the armed services, not to scold people who were racists. It worked very well; the military became the most integrated institution in America, and a model for dealing with the issue.

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Re: CRT

Post #5

Post by boatsnguitars »

Get woke, ya'll:

Critical Race Theory (CRT) is an academic framework and approach to examining how race and racism intersect with other forms of social inequality, such as class, gender, and sexuality. It emerged in the United States in the 1970s as a response to the limitations of traditional civil rights approaches to addressing racism.

CRT emphasizes that racism is not just an individual belief or action, but is embedded in social structures and institutions. It also argues that the experiences and perspectives of people of color are often marginalized or excluded from mainstream narratives and legal frameworks.

Some of the key concepts associated with CRT include: intersectionality, which recognizes the ways in which multiple forms of oppression intersect and interact; interest convergence, which suggests that dominant groups may only support anti-racist measures if they align with their own interests; and the idea of storytelling and counter-storytelling, which emphasizes the importance of alternative narratives and perspectives to challenge dominant cultural narratives.


Intersectionality: The concept of intersectionality, which recognizes the ways in which multiple forms of oppression intersect and interact, is a key component of CRT. For example, research has shown that Black women face unique forms of discrimination that cannot be fully explained by considering race or gender separately. A study by the Center for American Progress found that Black women face a pay gap that is wider than the pay gap for women overall and wider than the pay gap for Black men. This suggests that intersectionality is an important lens for understanding the experiences of marginalized groups.

Interest Convergence: Interest convergence, which suggests that dominant groups may only support anti-racist measures if they align with their own interests, is another key concept of CRT. For example, a study by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that school desegregation policies in the United States were only successful when they aligned with the interests of white families, such as improving property values or attracting business investment. This suggests that interest convergence can be a useful framework for understanding how social change occurs.

Storytelling and Counter-Storytelling: The idea of storytelling and counter-storytelling, which emphasizes the importance of alternative narratives and perspectives to challenge dominant cultural narratives, is also central to CRT. For example, a study published in the Journal of Social Issues found that hearing personal stories from people of color about their experiences of discrimination can increase empathy and reduce prejudice among white individuals. This suggests that storytelling and counter-storytelling can be a powerful tool for promoting understanding and social change.
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Re: CRT

Post #6

Post by Purple Knight »

boatsnguitars wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:19 pmthe idea of storytelling and counter-storytelling, which emphasizes the importance of alternative narratives and perspectives to challenge dominant cultural narratives.
Racists will tell you a story that they are actually the oppressed ones. In the racist's crazy upside-down world, whites are oppressed, and they're oppressed by the narratives that others are oppressed, and the catchup measures to help people achieve equality go too far.

I have my reasons for rejecting this alternative narrative but frankly I won't believe my own position fully until I hear people come to those same conclusions themselves.

The racist's crazy world is not logically impossible. It's not a flat contradiction that one group is actually oppressed and this is done by calling them the oppressive group. You could have a world like that. So what I always ask people is: What would clue you in, if this really was the world, that the racist's backwards narrative was true? If it was true, what would you find that would indicate it to be true?

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Re: CRT

Post #7

Post by boatsnguitars »

There doesn't seem to be much interest in this topic. The Right has tried to make it a third-rail issue, and there are many moderates who don't understand it or aren't curious about it.

My position is that CRT ought to be taught in all schools, just as science, math, and english should be taught in all schools.

The Right's warped and evil misunderstanding (or, they understand it perfectly, but really hate people of color so much they are purposely misunderstanding it) of it has led people to think it is something that it isn't.

For example, it's one thing to think the people in this photo were just plain evil:
Image

It's more difficult to claim that all these people were evil:
Image

It's even more difficult to explain this:
under President Johnson, federal Reconstruction efforts to support and enforce Black Americans’ citizenship rights and social and economic freedom went largely unsupported and unrealized.

Meanwhile, the Johnson administration allowed Southern whites to reestablish white supremacy and dominate Black people with impunity. Two incidents in 1866 foretold terrifying days to come for African Americans. On May 1, 1866, in Memphis, Tennessee, white police officers began firing into a crowd of African American men, women, and children that had gathered on South Street, and afterward white mobs rampaged through Black neighborhoods with the intent to “kill every Negro and drive the last one from the city.”
Less than three months later, in New Orleans, a group of African Americans—many of whom had been free before the Civil War—attempted to convene a state constitutional convention to extend voting rights to Black men and repeal racially discriminatory laws known as “Black Codes.”
When the delegates convened at the Mechanics’ Institute on July 30, 1866, groups of Black supporters and white opponents clashed in the streets. The white mob began firing on Black marchers, indiscriminately killing convention supporters and unaffiliated Black bystanders. Rather than maintain order, white police officers attacked Black residents with guns, axes, and clubs, arresting many and killing several. By the time federal troops arrived to suppress the white insurgency, as many as forty-eight Black people were dead and two hundred had been wounded.18
https://lynchinginamerica.eji.org/report/
First, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which declared Black Americans full citizens entitled to equal civil rights.20 President Johnson vetoed the bill, but Congress—for the first time in United States history—overrode the veto.21 Next, the progressive Republican supermajority quickly passed the Fourteenth Amendment.
It's not just a few bad apples in these cases, CRT looks at the total picture and shows how racism was imbedded into the law of the White people, and it took a Progressive movement (then, the Republican Party) to change the laws.

Yet, even with this:
1. Voter ID laws: Many states have implemented strict voter ID laws that disproportionately affect people of color, who may be less likely to have the required forms of identification.

2. Mandatory minimum sentences: Many mandatory minimum sentencing laws, which require judges to impose a minimum sentence for certain crimes, disproportionately affect people of color, who are more likely to be charged and convicted for certain offenses.

3. "Stop and frisk" policies: Some states and cities have implemented "stop and frisk" policies that allow police to stop and search people based on their appearance or behavior, which has been shown to disproportionately target people of color.

4. Housing discrimination: Although housing discrimination has been illegal since the Fair Housing Act of 1968, many discriminatory practices still exist, including redlining, which limits access to credit and housing in certain neighborhoods based on race.

5. School funding disparities: Many schools in low-income communities of color receive less funding than schools in wealthier, predominantly white areas, which leads to disparities in educational outcomes.

In general, CRT tries to examine these (among other) things:
The criminal justice system: Studies have shown that Black Americans are more likely to be arrested, charged, and sentenced to harsher punishments compared to White Americans for the same crimes. This is due to various factors, including biased policing practices, racial profiling, and mandatory minimum sentencing laws.

Education: Schools in predominantly Black and Brown communities often receive less funding and resources compared to schools in predominantly White communities. This leads to disparities in the quality of education and opportunities available to students.

Housing: Redlining is a practice that was used to deny housing loans and insurance to Black Americans, which contributed to segregation and the creation of predominantly Black neighborhoods. This has resulted in lower property values, limited access to affordable housing, and reduced economic opportunities for Black communities.

Employment: Black Americans face discrimination in hiring, promotions, and pay in the workplace. Studies have shown that resumes with "Black-sounding" names are less likely to receive callbacks for interviews, and Black workers earn less than White workers with similar qualifications and experience.

Healthcare: Black Americans experience disparities in healthcare, including lower access to quality care, higher rates of chronic illness, and higher mortality rates. This is due to a variety of factors, including systemic discrimination, lack of access to health insurance, and historical medical mistreatment.


My children went to a predominately Black school. They were two of 4 children who weren't Black, in a school of 500. I can assure you the discussion about growing up Black in America is vastly different in that school than in White America.

If you don't think CRT is important, you are either woefully ignorant or frighteningly racist.

Here are photos of racist's children at lynchings:
Image

Image

BTW, in that era, most people were Chrisitan...
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
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Re: CRT

Post #8

Post by Purple Knight »

boatsnguitars wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 5:14 am The criminal justice system: Studies have shown that Black Americans are more likely to be arrested, charged, and sentenced to harsher punishments compared to White Americans for the same crimes. This is due to various factors, including biased policing practices, racial profiling, and mandatory minimum sentencing laws.
Males experience worse outcomes than females. They're incarcerated at about ten times the rate of females.

This is a difficult question, and it's my job to ask my side difficult questions.

Do you think males are just more aggressive because of their testicles, leading them to commit more crime? Or do you think that the system, which has been unreasonably unforgiving toward typical male behaviours since the word "gentle man" came about, has the same sorts of biases against males as we see against Blacks?

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Re: CRT

Post #9

Post by boatsnguitars »

Purple Knight wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 6:18 pm
boatsnguitars wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 5:14 am The criminal justice system: Studies have shown that Black Americans are more likely to be arrested, charged, and sentenced to harsher punishments compared to White Americans for the same crimes. This is due to various factors, including biased policing practices, racial profiling, and mandatory minimum sentencing laws.
Males experience worse outcomes than females. They're incarcerated at about ten times the rate of females.

This is a difficult question, and it's my job to ask my side difficult questions.

Do you think males are just more aggressive because of their testicles, leading them to commit more crime? Or do you think that the system, which has been unreasonably unforgiving toward typical male behaviours since the word "gentle man" came about, has the same sorts of biases against males as we see against Blacks?
These are valid questions, of course, and I might add - the whole point of CRT: to ask hard questions and explore the reasons, not (as some would prefer) to sweep it under the rug.

From a CRT perspective which really deals more with intersectionality of race, it is still appropriate to ask why more men (and more black men) find themselves in prison.

I am not going to answer your question, but I'll give you my thoughts:
The over-incarceration of men may be because of biological factors such as testosterone levels or innate aggression, but it may also be related to complex social and economic factors that disproportionately impact men.

For example, the way masculinity is constructed and enforced in our society. Traditionally, masculine norms often emphasize aggression, dominance, and toughness, which can lead to violent behavior and criminal activity. Especially in those men who aren't raised to find alternatives to their aggression, or men who feel they are losing the 'game of life' and believe (mistakenly) that they need to be more aggressive - more toxic.
CRT might add that men of color may experience heightened pressure to conform to these norms as a means of survival in a society that has historically denied them equal access to economic and social opportunities. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and that is how desperate people act - in desperation.

Also, the criminal justice system itself, which has been shown to have systemic biases against men. Men are often subjected to harsher sentencing and less sympathetic treatment by judges and juries, and may also be more likely to be profiled and targeted by law enforcement. These biases are particularly pronounced for men of color, who are more likely to be perceived as threatening or dangerous by law enforcement and the public at large.

It's a "soft" vicious cycle: since men are most likely to be violent, the police err on the side of caution to treat men, and often react violently - this, of course, makes men wary of police contact and act aggressively, etc...

It's kind of the opposite of a middle age white man walking around a store. When i was younger, I knew I was being watched as a potential shoplifter. Go in with a suit at 40 and no one will give you a second look.
Go in as a black man, and you will be watched like a hawk.

Or, take drug arrests. Every race smokes weed as much as the next. White people may smoke more, in fact (depending on age - in fact, older Black men wmoke less weed than White men of the same age).
Yet, arrests for weed were far higher among Black men because they were expected to be criminals.

Yes, there are biological factors at play, but as we know, not all men have high testosterone, or are big and imposing. Some are weak, both physically and mentally, and act with violence out of social pressures.

Any man, one with high or low testosterone, can still feel like a cornered animal in a situation, and Whitey has been cornering the Black man for generations.

But, the important reason I weighed in is that I believe it should be talked about. That's why I think CRT should be taught in school.
“And do you think that unto such as you
A maggot-minded, starved, fanatic crew
God gave a secret, and denied it me?
Well, well—what matters it? Believe that, too!”
― Omar Khayyâm

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Re: CRT

Post #10

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to nobspeople in post #1]

Nah it's a cash grab.
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