Allegations

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Rose2020
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Allegations

Post #1

Post by Rose2020 »

Concerning the allegations against Tim Westwood. I don't even know who he is. Yet a principle comes to mind.

Why are the women who are alleging the incidents allowed to tell detailed accounts through the media to the whole world , before any court hearings?
In the interests of balanced fair justice, surely this should be blocked.
It looks clear to me that in such cases, whether the man concerned is guilty or innocent, his reputation is ruined anyway.

I only make the point that it doesn't seem fair or even legal. Of course guilt should be fully punished if a crime was committed. Yet that is for a court to decide, not the public through reading the news.

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Re: Allegations

Post #2

Post by Rose2020 »

May I add that upon reading comments from the public it is indeed apparent that people are mainly jumping to conclusions about the man. His character is being attacked mercilessly, by those who know nothing.

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Miles
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Re: Allegations

Post #3

Post by Miles »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:43 am Concerning the allegations against Tim Westwood. I don't even know who he is. Yet a principle comes to mind.

Why are the women who are alleging the incidents allowed to tell detailed accounts through the media to the whole world , before any court hearings?
Freedom of speech perhaps.

In the interests of balanced fair justice, surely this should be blocked.
Exactly what interests does balanced fair justice have in blocking them?

It looks clear to me that in such cases, whether the man concerned is guilty or innocent, his reputation is ruined anyway.
Perhaps, but this would only be among the rush-to-judgment folk whose opinions no one should be paying any attention to. Do you pay attention to what they think?

I only make the point that it doesn't seem fair or even legal.
That it seems much fairer and legal to limit free speech?

May I add that upon reading comments from the public it is indeed apparent that people are mainly jumping to conclusions about the man. His character is being attacked mercilessly, by those who know nothing.
And how is it you know for a fact that they know nothing?


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Athetotheist
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Re: Allegations

Post #4

Post by Athetotheist »

Miles wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:51 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:43 am Concerning the allegations against Tim Westwood. I don't even know who he is. Yet a principle comes to mind.

Why are the women who are alleging the incidents allowed to tell detailed accounts through the media to the whole world , before any court hearings?
Freedom of speech perhaps.

In the interests of balanced fair justice, surely this should be blocked.
Exactly what interests does balanced fair justice have in blocking them?

It looks clear to me that in such cases, whether the man concerned is guilty or innocent, his reputation is ruined anyway.
Perhaps, but this would only be among the rush-to-judgment folk whose opinions no one should be paying any attention to. Do you pay attention to what they think?

I only make the point that it doesn't seem fair or even legal.
That it seems much fairer and legal to limit free speech?

May I add that upon reading comments from the public it is indeed apparent that people are mainly jumping to conclusions about the man. His character is being attacked mercilessly, by those who know nothing.
And how is it you know for a fact that they know nothing?
Freedom of speech is for expressing opinions. Making accusations has different rules.

When men are accused of something unseemly, media can exhibit shockingly little regard for the rule of law which demands that an accused party be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Remember that if you hear an accuser presumptuously thanked for having the "courage" to speak out before the accusation is shown to have merit or see a headline telling you that someone "reveals" having been victimized rather than alleges it. Journalists should act like journalists and not like prosecuting attorneys questioning their own clients on the stand, which comes off as a heavy-handed attempt to sway an audience and make "rush-to-judgement folk" out of everyone.

Rose is right; it should be dealt with in court and not in the headlines.

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Re: Allegations

Post #5

Post by Miles »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 2:02 pm
Miles wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:51 pm
Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:43 am Concerning the allegations against Tim Westwood. I don't even know who he is. Yet a principle comes to mind.

Why are the women who are alleging the incidents allowed to tell detailed accounts through the media to the whole world , before any court hearings?
Freedom of speech perhaps.

In the interests of balanced fair justice, surely this should be blocked.
Exactly what interests does balanced fair justice have in blocking them?

It looks clear to me that in such cases, whether the man concerned is guilty or innocent, his reputation is ruined anyway.
Perhaps, but this would only be among the rush-to-judgment folk whose opinions no one should be paying any attention to. Do you pay attention to what they think?

I only make the point that it doesn't seem fair or even legal.
That it seems much fairer and legal to limit free speech?

May I add that upon reading comments from the public it is indeed apparent that people are mainly jumping to conclusions about the man. His character is being attacked mercilessly, by those who know nothing.
And how is it you know for a fact that they know nothing?
Freedom of speech is for expressing opinions. Making accusations has different rules.
So, what if it's the media's opinion that X is guilty? I assume you're just fine with that, being freedom of speech and all.

When men are accused of something unseemly, media can exhibit shockingly little regard for the rule of law which demands that an accused party be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
To tell you the truth, I can't recall the media ever deeming a defendant guilty before sufficient evidence had been presented. Moreover, presumption of innocence only applies to trials in that it's not binding on anyone else, although failing to presume innocence may be an infraction of journalistic ethics.


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Re: Allegations

Post #6

Post by Athetotheist »

[Replying to Miles in post #5
So, what if it's the media's opinion that X is guilty? I assume you're just fine with that, being freedom of speech and all.
The media aren't supposed to express opinions; they're supposed to impart accurate information.

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Re: Allegations

Post #7

Post by Miles »

Athetotheist wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 6:42 pm [Replying to Miles in post #5
So, what if it's the media's opinion that X is guilty? I assume you're just fine with that, being freedom of speech and all.
The media aren't supposed to express opinions; they're supposed to impart accurate information.

Ever hear of an Editorial Page?



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Athetotheist
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Re: Allegations

Post #8

Post by Athetotheist »

Miles wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 7:07 pm
Athetotheist wrote: Sun May 01, 2022 6:42 pm [Replying to Miles in post #5
So, what if it's the media's opinion that X is guilty? I assume you're just fine with that, being freedom of speech and all.
The media aren't supposed to express opinions; they're supposed to impart accurate information.

Ever hear of an Editorial Page?



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Yeah----it's a page separate from the news.

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Re: Allegations

Post #9

Post by nobspeople »

Rose2020 wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:43 am Concerning the allegations against Tim Westwood. I don't even know who he is. Yet a principle comes to mind.

Why are the women who are alleging the incidents allowed to tell detailed accounts through the media to the whole world , before any court hearings?
In the interests of balanced fair justice, surely this should be blocked.
It looks clear to me that in such cases, whether the man concerned is guilty or innocent, his reputation is ruined anyway.

I only make the point that it doesn't seem fair or even legal. Of course guilt should be fully punished if a crime was committed. Yet that is for a court to decide, not the public through reading the news.
There seems to be more than one way of justice in today's world: the legal, court one, and the social one.
A person can be found innocent and still live miserably due to how they were talked about in the media and how people perceive and act towards them.
I'm reminded of Chris Hardwick when he was accused. He said “I'm still recovering from being sexually used.” That, to me, is important to understand. In today's world, all it takes is one person and a listening media to ruin someone even if they were innocent.
Sad.
Have a great, potentially godless, day!

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