Taking the Oath on the Koran

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micatala
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Taking the Oath on the Koran

Post #1

Post by micatala »

Columnist Dennis Prager has taken issue with incoming Congressman Keith Ellison's intention to use a Koran instead of a Bible for his 'unofficial photo op swearing in'.

Prager contends this action would "undermine American civilization" and that he should not be allowed to do it.

He says in part
Devotees of multiculturalism and political correctness who do not see how damaging to the fabric of American civilization it is to allow Ellison to choose his own book need only imagine a racist elected to Congress. Would they allow him to choose Hitler's "Mein Kampf," the Nazis' bible, for his oath? And if not, why not? On what grounds will those defending Ellison's right to choose his favorite book deny that same right to a racist who is elected to public office?
Questions for debate:

Should the Congress take any action to prevent Ellison from swearing in on the Koran? Why or why not?

Does Prager have a point that this would be opening up the swearing in ceremonies to a slippery slope?

More generally, what is the point of using a Bible or any other book to 'swear on' when taking such oaths? Should we use the constitution itself instead? SHould we dispense with a book?

A commentator on CNN this evening noted a couple of examples where a book was not used, or where an 'affirmation' was given instead of an 'oath' (I am not sure what the difference was supposed to be).

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Galphanore
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Post #11

Post by Galphanore »

Dion wrote:If an outsider may comment: I cannot see that an oath constitutes a religious test so long as there is no requirement to swear on the holy book of, or renounce, any particular religion. Of course those who have no particular religious convictions must be allowed to affirm.

In Britain this is the commonplace way of doing these things. So, if I was giving evidence in court I would, as an atheist, affirm using words along the lines of:

'I solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that the evidence I shall give will be the truth, ... etc.'

I would, in effect, be giving my word of honour, which for me is no small thing. But then again, I'm not a politician!

If I were a Christian I would swear on the Bible, if a Jew on the Old Testament, if a Muslim the Qu'ran, etc.

A similar system is used when newly elected Members of Parliament swear or affirm allegiance to the Crown before taking their seat.
Pretty much the point most in this thread are, thankfully, making. The requirement to swear on a holy book is archaic and unconstitutional, and this guys insistance that the Koran should not be used is asinine. Feel free to comment on anything we do, btw, we never let not living over there stop us :D
Dion wrote:The only thing that I'm not really sure of is, is the gentleman who intends to swear on the Qu'ran actually a Muslim? If not, then he will be swearing no kind of oath at all.
Yes, he's a Muslim, which is why demanding he swear on the bible is so completely insane in the first place.
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Dion
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Post #12

Post by Dion »

Galphanore wrote: Feel free to comment on anything we do, btw, we never let not living over there stop us :D
You may live to regret that invitation! :lol:

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upallnite
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Post #13

Post by upallnite »

You may live to regret that invitation!
Like not living in the US has ever stoped anyone from critisizing what the US does, and vice versa.


It is my understanding that when someone is sworn in they do not have any religious text. The "swearing in" you see on TV is just a photo opt. That would mean Prager is complaining about a photo opt.

The bible has not always been used. The OT has been used for Jewish people.

McCulloch,
Irony overdose? :-k

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Galphanore
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Post #14

Post by Galphanore »

Dion wrote:
Galphanore wrote:Feel free to comment on anything we do, btw, we never let not living over there stop us :D
You may live to regret that invitation! :lol:
Being a somewhat honest person I must admit slight ulterior motives. I find the hyper-patriotism my country has succumbed to to be detrimental to the advancement of the human race, so any time I can put a dent in it, however minor, I consider a good thing.
  • You are free to do what you want, but you are not free to want what you want.

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micatala
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Post #15

Post by micatala »

Galphanore wrote:
Dion wrote:
Galphanore wrote:Feel free to comment on anything we do, btw, we never let not living over there stop us :D
You may live to regret that invitation! :lol:
Being a somewhat honest person I must admit slight ulterior motives. I find the hyper-patriotism my country has succumbed to to be detrimental to the advancement of the human race, so any time I can put a dent in it, however minor, I consider a good thing.
I can certainly agree with this sentiment.

If Britain can dispense with 'the book' then I think those of us across the pond can do so as well.

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