happy holidays

[turtleguy]

you go into a store to day and they usually won't say anything unless you buy something but when you do they say "happy holidays" i didn't think anything of that the first time it happened to me but then i found out that major stores and even phone salesmen are being specifically told not to say merry christmas i was talking to a friend of mine who lives in valdasta and he said they changed the name of their christmas parade from "Christmas Parade" to "Winter Fest" because it could be offensive to some people this is pathetic do you feel offended when someone says, "merry christmas!" to you? i think this is really stupid. what do you think???

[potwalloper.]

I think that the issue here is not one of offence but rather of exclusion. If you live in a society that is truly multicultural then it is probably not a good idea to give minority groups the feeling that they are merely tolerated rather than an integral part of society.

Christmas is a religious festival - it is not hard to see how people could feel excluded where festivals from one religion are celebrated whilst their own are ignored.

True integration of races, cultures and religions is hard work and you can't please everyone...

[mrmufin]

i was talking to a friend of mine who lives in valdasta and he said they changed the name of their christmas parade from "Christmas Parade" to "Winter Fest" because it could be offensive to some people this is pathetic do you feel offended when someone says, "merry christmas!" to you? i think this is really stupid. what do you think???

There quite a few cultures with holidays around this time of year: Christmas, Hannukah, Kwanza, Ramadan, winter solistice. It seems abundantly clear that "Happy holidays" is more generic and less presumptuous than "Merry Christmas." When the cashier is handing me my change s/he has no idea what holiday --if any-- is being celebrated (or avoided) at the mufin residence. Like most folks, I don't wear my beliefs on my t-shirt.

So, no, I don't think that saying "Happy holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas" is really stupid, or even a wee bit stupid. It's just less presumptuous. Would you feel a li'l bit awkward if the cashier handed you your change and offered you a blessed Ramadan?

Regards,
mrmufin

[ST88]

they changed the name of their christmas parade from "Christmas Parade" to "Winter Fest" because it could be offensive to some people this is pathetic do you feel offended when someone says, "merry christmas!" to you? i think this is really stupid. what do you think???

In some ways, though not quite stupid, it does bump up against being disingenuous. In most cases, these festivals and events are no different, they just have different labels. I've come across very few non-Christians who are offended when Santa is posing for pictures with kids in malls. But recently, I've noticed that the word "Christmas" is missing from such displays. On the surface it doesn't make any sense at all. How can you have Santa without Christmas? But the secularization of this holiday is tricky and complicated.

The real reason not to offend anyone is so that they won't call all of their friends and boycott or picket you because of the offense. I think it has less to do with trying altruistically to be "inclusive"; it all really comes down to fear of losing business or getting sued.

[Amadeus]

What bothers me is that so many people celebrate Christmas, no matter what they believe, but stil the stores don't want to offend anyone by saying Merry Christmas!
I know of Jewish people who celebrate Christmas, justv like the Atheists who celebrate it, and everyone else. They think of Christmas as Santa and presents, and still call it Christmas.

So why then is it SO politically incorrect to say Christmas, if everyone (almost) is celebrating it.

C'mon. We all celebrate Holloween, but how many of us believe it is the night when the spirit world is closest to the living or whatever?

[turtleguy]

When the cashier is handing me my change s/he has no idea what holiday --if any-- is being celebrated

what if it is december 20th and you buy something the cashier knows what holiday it is! the cashier and all the other employees are dressed up like elves but they still will not say christmas! people don't mind making millions of dollars of a christian holiday but they won't even say the name of the holiday they are making money off of. it used to be christmas savings but now it's holiday savings. In my neighborhood there is a HUGE magnolia tree and every year there is a christmas tree lighting and every year a FAKE santa clause on a fire-truck comes and says hi to all the people and he usually says"merry christmas" but this year the old fake called me a ho three times and then said "happy holidays" there is only one good santa left and that is my best friend's dad and he has a real beard and had a big belly(he struggles with depression and lost his belly because he got really depressed and would not eat)but he still says "merry christmas" and he plays the banjo. it is pathetic they have taken christmas out of everything.

[mrmufin]

When the cashier is handing me my change s/he has no idea what holiday --if any-- is being celebrated

what if it is december 20th and you buy something the cashier knows what holiday it is!

Let's take another look at my original statement (emphasis added):

When the cashier is handing me my change s/he has no idea what holiday --if any-- is being celebrated (or avoided) at the mufin residence.

I only suggested that the cashier was unaware of the particular holiday --if any- that I (or any other specific customer) may be celebrating (or, perhaps avoiding).

the cashier and all the other employees are dressed up like elves but they still will not say christmas!

Because everybody knows the True Meaning of Christmas(TM) has everything to do with elves, huh?

people don't mind making millions of dollars of a christian holiday but they won't even say the name of the holiday they are making money off of.

Unless the folks purchasing the products are celebrating Kwanza. Or Hannukah. Or winter solistice. Or Frank Zappa's birthday. Maybe they're not celebrating anything at all. Maybe they're buying the stuff for themselves. The primary purpose of business is to make money. I can't fault businesses for appealing to tradition in an attempt to make a buck. If adjusting the standard cashier greeting may appeal to a broader customer base, then that's what businesses will do. Does it border on disingenuous, as ST88 suggests? Probably; but not much more than the less inclusive "Merry Christmas."

To summarize: Christians don't get a monopoly on December holidays.

Regards,
mrmufin

[Amadeus]

So...
Why should the stores bother to put up the decorations normally associated with Christmas, sell Christmas themed products, give out candy canes (which were created with religious significance in mind) if they are not trying to monopolize us on our holiday. Yes, they are trying to make money, but it is pretty rotten when they are so obviously celebrating Christmas (though secularized it may be) but are too afraid of offending a handful of people that can't stand to have any holiday mentioned.

[turtleguy]

elves, santa, christmas they all go together. first was christmas then saint nick he became santa clause and then elves became associated with santa. elves aren't the true meaning of christmas but they sure symbolize it. people just won't say it anymore

[Quarkhead]

Of course, Christians didn't start celebrating Jesus' birthday in December until they were encountering (read: beating the snot out of in an effort to "Christianize") the European tribes, when they co-opted the winter solstice celebration, a pagan holiday. Which is also, of course, where the Christmas tree came from, as well.

And while the story of Saint Nicholas may have some Christian relevance to Christmas, the jolly fat magic man who lives at the north pole with a bunch of elves doesn't really fit into the Christian ideology very well.

Stores are in the business of making money - to this end, they want to appeal to everyone; they would rather not alienate any of their potential customers. They recognize that Christmas today is quite a secular holiday, and that not all of their customers celebrate it in any case. And why would "happy holidays" be offensive to Christians? It certainly doesn't exclude them. Indeed Christians, of all people, ought to embrace such a practice, as it has at its core a sense of tolerance and inclusion, which are Christian traits - at least in theory!