The current Christian Church

[Allie]

Firstly, let me say like I always do, that I am very young. Please be patient with me, as I am quite new at debating and make mistakes.

Here we go:

The perfect church. I've been thinking about this for a while, and would like to hear your ideas. Keep in mind that we are talking a Christian church, and while I respect all of your views, for this thread we are talking Christianity.

I didn't post on the Christian-only board because I would like to hear the non-Theist opinions.

Questions for debate:
1. Do you think the church is currently set up in the best possible way? If not, how would you change it?
2. Do you think any vital part of Christianity is missing in the church today?

For example, I think it would be much better to have the church split into groups. Everyone is on a different level, so the more advanced Christians would go and delve deep into the Bible and into the details, while the new Christians would hear more of the basic message. There could be many groups, with certain teachers specializing in certain types of teaching--I think that would be wonderful.

Also, I think churches today are missing something incredibly vital--prayer! We won't feel the power of prayer if we don't pray! At my church, at least, there is no deep prayer. I think that is extremely important.

With that said, go ahead and post your opinions! I'm excited.

[Zzyzx]

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Simply, it is the ONE we find in the NEW TESTAMENT. Which means that most churches today are way out of wack!

What makes the New Testament an authority on gods? There are thousands of "gods" available for worship and tens of thousands of religions – many with accompanying "holy books". None can be shown to represent truth.

The "New Testament" was produced by a government appointed committee from selected writings of unidentified people from hundreds of years earlier (reporting events and conversations that supposedly happened many decades prior to writing). None of the original writings are available, nor are the earliest bibles.

Once produced by the committee, the work was variously transcribed, translated, revised, modified, rewritten and edited by countless unidentified people – and is available in 100+ "versions" in English alone.

The work is known to contain errors of fact, internal contradictions and inconsistencies, and fictional parts.

What parts, if any, of which "version" are authentic, literally true, "the word of god", or accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus?

Each of the churches that are identified as being "way out of wack" are based upon beliefs that they are doing things correctly (often that they are the only sect worshiping correctly). How is it that any sect or any individual can KNOW that they are right and others wrong? Who has authority to make that decision and by whom was it granted?

As a Non-Theist, I enjoy seeing people who identify themselves as Christians condemn others who identify themselves as Christians as being wrong. Doing so reduces credibility of the entire religion – and makes apparent for all to see some of the defects in supernaturalism.

Here's what I always tell people. Read the 4 Gospels - then you will know all about the FOUNDER of the Church.

Correction: Reading the gospels will provide some information about the character that forms the basis of ONE of the major religions of the world. There is considerable disagreement regarding what is known about Jesus – with some doubt regarding existence and/or divinity. The gospels do not provide enough information to say "you will know all about the founder of the church".

There is nothing contained in the gospels that provides evidence that the religious beliefs promoted are authentic or are in any way superior to any other beliefs. In spite of grandiose claims made by proponents, the gospels are nothing more than religious promotional materials that cannot be shown to be truthful, literal or accurate.

[McCulloch]

Simply, it is the ONE we find in the NEW TESTAMENT. Which means that most churches today are way out of wack!

Most or all.

Here's what I always tell people. Read the 4 Gospels - then you will know all about the FOUNDER of the Church. Then read the apistles Acts - Jude.

I get the point, but most would say, "then read Acts and the Epistles."

In there you will find everything you need to know about the church: its name, its organization, its purpose, its methods, its responsibilities - everything. Next, start looking in your town for a congregation that looks like, works like, and teaches like what you just read (without adding to or subtracting from).

And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common;
Acts 2:44
And the congregation of those who believed were of one heart and soul; and not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own, but all things were common property to them.
Acts 4:32
The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
1 Corinthians 14:34
Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
James 5:14-18
Pretty difficult to find. You know of any?

[spiritletter]

A flexible and tolerant organization that did not believe that its version of Christianity was the definitive one, one that welcomed even other religions, that did not demean women or homosexuals and which welcomed indeterminacy as a standard of discourse.

[tlong]

Firstly, let me say like I always do, that I am very young. Please be patient with me, as I am quite new at debating and make mistakes.

Here we go:

The perfect church. I've been thinking about this for a while, and would like to hear your ideas. Keep in mind that we are talking a Christian church, and while I respect all of your views, for this thread we are talking Christianity.

I didn't post on the Christian-only board because I would like to hear the non-Theist opinions.

Questions for debate:
1. Do you think the church is currently set up in the best possible way? If not, how would you change it?
2. Do you think any vital part of Christianity is missing in the church today?

For example, I think it would be much better to have the church split into groups. Everyone is on a different level, so the more advanced Christians would go and delve deep into the Bible and into the details, while the new Christians would hear more of the basic message. There could be many groups, with certain teachers specializing in certain types of teaching--I think that would be wonderful.

Also, I think churches today are missing something incredibly vital--prayer! We won't feel the power of prayer if we don't pray! At my church, at least, there is no deep prayer. I think that is extremely important.

With that said, go ahead and post your opinions! I'm excited.

http://www.w65stchurchofchrist.org/Bull ... ligion.htm

The church of YOUR choice or the church of God's choice?



Have you ever heard it said that we should be saved and then join the church of our choice? Does the Bible teach this idea or something else about church membership? Let’s find out.

Christ is the Savior of the body.

Ephesians 5:23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.

The body is the church.

Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

There is only one body, or church.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling;

It is the church built by Jesus, the one that belongs to Him.

Matthew 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.

God adds us to Christ's church when we obey the Gospel.

Acts 2:37, 38, 41, 47

37Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?� 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. …41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. …47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.


There were no denominations to choose from in the New Testament and no hyphenated Christians. There was only the church that belonged to Christ, composed of Christians.

At the I-35 Church of Christ, we are striving to live as simple, New Testament Christians.
Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. So it was that for a whole year they assembled with the church and taught a great many people. And the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed.



We hope you will come worship God and study His word with us.




If you are not worshipping in truth and spirit then your worship is in vain. We do not have the right to change our worship to what we like. We are to worship and do things that are pleasing to God.So to answer your questions: 1. If your Church is set up the way we are taught in the new testament, then I would not change anything.2. The vital part of christianity that is missing today is respect for the authority of God's word. In order to do all in the name of the Lord we must do it by his authority. That means we are to do what we are told.

[spiritletter]

Firstly, let me say like I always do, that I am very young. Please be patient with me, as I am quite new at debating and make mistakes.

Here we go:

The perfect church. I've been thinking about this for a while, and would like to hear your ideas. Keep in mind that we are talking a Christian church, and while I respect all of your views, for this thread we are talking Christianity.

I didn't post on the Christian-only board because I would like to hear the non-Theist opinions.

Questions for debate:
1. Do you think the church is currently set up in the best possible way? If not, how would you change it?
2. Do you think any vital part of Christianity is missing in the church today?

For example, I think it would be much better to have the church split into groups. Everyone is on a different level, so the more advanced Christians would go and delve deep into the Bible and into the details, while the new Christians would hear more of the basic message. There could be many groups, with certain teachers specializing in certain types of teaching--I think that would be wonderful.

Also, I think churches today are missing something incredibly vital--prayer! We won't feel the power of prayer if we don't pray! At my church, at least, there is no deep prayer. I think that is extremely important.

With that said, go ahead and post your opinions! I'm excited.

Depends on the church. There is a very broad range. I prefer a progressive church that does not preach stupid ideas about women, homosexuals, etc. I also prefer one that is engaged in some kind of useful activity, e.g.; feeding the homeless, counseling the distraught, etc.

A pastor once said to me that we must not worship the church. The church is a building, after all. It should be a welcoming and diverse place, it should be friendly to democratic process and alternate points of view.

I believe that there is not spirit in many churches nowadays because they have become forces of bigotry and hatred.

However, there are many churches who have become progressive, have revisited the Bible with a new eye, and have become active in contemplative prayer, lectio divina, etc. These churches appeal to me. It doesn't matter which denomination they are, it depends on the openness of the community, and its willingness to find truth that is not twisted and misused.

This is my humble opinion.

[tlong]

Depends on the church. There is a very broad range. I prefer a progressive church that does not preach stupid ideas about women, homosexuals, etc. I also prefer one that is engaged in some kind of useful activity, e.g.; feeding the homeless, counseling the distraught, etc.

A pastor once said to me that we must not worship the church. The church is a building, after all. It should be a welcoming and diverse place, it should be friendly to democratic process and alternate points of view.

I believe that there is not spirit in many churches nowadays because they have become forces of bigotry and hatred.

However, there are many churches who have become progressive, have revisited the Bible with a new eye, and have become active in contemplative prayer, lectio divina, etc. These churches appeal to me. It doesn't matter which denomination they are, it depends on the openness of the community, and its willingness to find truth that is not twisted and misused.

This is my humble opinion.[/quote]

First of all, the Church is the people. The building is simply a meeting place. Second, the work of the Church is not to feed hungry people or house the homeless. Those would be good works for individuals to do, but the work of the Church is first and foremost to preach and teach the word of God. And last, the bible has condemned homosexuality.

If you want to worship the True and Living God of the Bible you must do so as we have been directed by the New Testament.

[Goat]

First of all, the Church is the people. The building is simply a meeting place. Second, the work of the Church is not to feed hungry people or house the homeless. Those would be good works for individuals to do, but the work of the Church is first and foremost to preach and teach the word of God. And last, the bible has condemned homosexuality.

If you want to worship the True and Living God of the Bible you must do so as we have been directed by the New Testament.

By the lessons of Jesus, or by the lessons of Paul, whose theology was directly opposed to what Jesus taught?

Do you concentrate on the message Jesus brought, or what is taught by Paul about Jesus?

[tlong]

First of all, the Church is the people. The building is simply a meeting place. Second, the work of the Church is not to feed hungry people or house the homeless. Those would be good works for individuals to do, but the work of the Church is first and foremost to preach and teach the word of God. And last, the bible has condemned homosexuality.

If you want to worship the True and Living God of the Bible you must do so as we have been directed by the New Testament.

By the lessons of Jesus, or by the lessons of Paul, whose theology was directly opposed to what Jesus taught?

Do you concentrate on the message Jesus brought, or what is taught by Paul about Jesus?

They are one in the same. I will need you to be more specific.

[spiritletter]

Depends on the church. There is a very broad range. I prefer a progressive church that does not preach stupid ideas about women, homosexuals, etc. I also prefer one that is engaged in some kind of useful activity, e.g.; feeding the homeless, counseling the distraught, etc.

A pastor once said to me that we must not worship the church. The church is a building, after all. It should be a welcoming and diverse place, it should be friendly to democratic process and alternate points of view.

I believe that there is not spirit in many churches nowadays because they have become forces of bigotry and hatred.

However, there are many churches who have become progressive, have revisited the Bible with a new eye, and have become active in contemplative prayer, lectio divina, etc. These churches appeal to me. It doesn't matter which denomination they are, it depends on the openness of the community, and its willingness to find truth that is not twisted and misused.

This is my humble opinion.

First of all, the Church is the people. The building is simply a meeting place. Second, the work of the Church is not to feed hungry people or house the homeless. Those would be good works for individuals to do, but the work of the Church is first and foremost to preach and teach the word of God. And last, the bible has condemned homosexuality.

If you want to worship the True and Living God of the Bible you must do so as we have been directed by the New Testament.[/quote]

This presupposes that you know who the true and living God of the Bible is. You will have to convince me. For the rest, that is a matter of opinion.

[Goat]

First of all, the Church is the people. The building is simply a meeting place. Second, the work of the Church is not to feed hungry people or house the homeless. Those would be good works for individuals to do, but the work of the Church is first and foremost to preach and teach the word of God. And last, the bible has condemned homosexuality.

If you want to worship the True and Living God of the Bible you must do so as we have been directed by the New Testament.

By the lessons of Jesus, or by the lessons of Paul, whose theology was directly opposed to what Jesus taught?

Do you concentrate on the message Jesus brought, or what is taught by Paul about Jesus?

They are one in the same. I will need you to be more specific.[/quote]

For the most part, in the words attributed by Jesus, there is a general attitude to compassion, "What you have done to the least of your brothers you have done to me", and examples of him reaching out to the poor, the blind, the Samaritans (who were considered weird and outcast of their day).

Paul concentrated on control over women, getting certain laws overturned, and had a certain obsession about sex, to the point of violating the compassion that it is portrayed that Jesus had.