Let's not drive them away unnecessarily ...

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McCulloch
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Let's not drive them away unnecessarily ...

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

micatala wrote:So, the Christians are a significant presence on the board, but they also make fewer posts per person than the atheists.
Pastor4Jesus wrote:Yes that's the problem. I (and a couple of other Christians) have to reply to five or six people of differing opinion, and when refuting a claim the original reply is usually longer, so do the math my friend, 5x or 6x is a lot of font.
McCulloch wrote:I do feel for you there. I am trying to recruit Christian apologists, currently students at a Bible College where the daughter of a friend of mine attends, to this site. I do try to refrain from posting when I would be the fourth or fifth skeptic responding to the same believer's post. I am not always successful at holding myself back.
Let's try to be considerate. Unless you really feel that you have something new to add, it might be best to avoid being beyond the fourth skeptical responder to a believer's specific post.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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VermilionUK
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Post #2

Post by VermilionUK »

I see what you're saying, and I tend to keep out of the religious stuff and focus more on the current events and politics sections - there's more than enough Atheists to debate with Theists.

However I think it's understandable, because if someone makes an outlandish claim with no evidence at all, but states it as fact, then you'd expect 5 or 6 Atheists to pounce on it within minutes.

In the last 10 years Atheism has become incredibly vocal, as if it's breaking it's silence regarding religion.

But yes, I think sometimes a poster can be overwhelmed with responses to a claim they make.
When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth
- Sherlock Holmes -

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Post #3

Post by McCulloch »

Besides, they are fighting an uphill battle, against the odds without the evidence ;)

Let's not kick them repeatedly when they are down. We can tag team them.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #4

Post by OnceConvinced »

Seems like fair comments to me. It must be overwhelming for them at times. If God was really helping them and giving them the words to say, it would be a different story. But clearly he's not. :)

Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.

Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.

There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.


Check out my website: Recker's World of Fantasy

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Post #5

Post by Zzyzx »

.
I would sure hate to feel compelled by emotion to argue in favor of invisible, undetectable "gods" and worship practices for which there is no evidence of truth. Reason and evidence trumps opinion and supposition -- except among those who want to believe for personal reasons.

Recruitment of capable theistic debaters seems to be unproductive. I have challenged, cajoled, invited, Theists (including some "Famous Theistic Debaters". An obvious result was "The Fake Theology Professor" (remember him?).
.
Non-Theist

ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

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Tired of the Nonsense
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Post #6

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

McCulloch wrote: Let's try to be considerate. Unless you really feel that you have something new to add, it might be best to avoid being beyond the fourth skeptical responder to a believer's specific post.

The tragedy of this board is that all of the really interesting fire-breathing theists end up getting banned in the name of "civility." And then the rest of the non-theists pile on the few theists who have the guts to post anything at all. Religion is an emotional subject for theists. Banning them in the name of civility is unsatisfying for both sides. We need a forum on this board where the rules of engagement are more relaxed and passion is not only allowed but encouraged. Within reasonable limits of course. Pointless name calling and f-bombs don't advance anyone's cause. But freedom to say what is felt would be a tremendous improvement.

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Post #7

Post by McCulloch »

McCulloch wrote: Let's try to be considerate. Unless you really feel that you have something new to add, it might be best to avoid being beyond the fourth skeptical responder to a believer's specific post.
Tired of the Nonsense wrote: The tragedy of this board is that all of the really interesting fire-breathing theists end up getting banned in the name of "civility."
It is a sad thing that anyone would consider only the fire-breathing extremists to be the only ones on the other side why can be considered interesting.
Tired of the Nonsense wrote: And then the rest of the non-theists pile on the few theists who have the guts to post anything at all. Religion is an emotional subject for theists. Banning them in the name of civility is unsatisfying for both sides. We need a forum on this board where the rules of engagement are more relaxed and passion is not only allowed but encouraged. Within reasonable limits of course. Pointless name calling and f-bombs don't advance anyone's cause. But freedom to say what is felt would be a tremendous improvement.
I believe that we do provide those limits. Banning only happens when the offenses are continued, deliberate or quite offensive. Usually the offenders are given a chance to shape up, a probation period.

Freedom to say what is felt is a tricky issue. It, to me, revolves around not just what you say but how it is said. Here are examples, "I couldn’t find the idiots guide to Judaism, so I guess we will have to use you as a reference."; "Your pathetic attempt at debate has not gone unnoticed."; "You have made if perfectly clear that you and all of your relatives all decended from uncle benny. "; "You are adding nothing productive/constructive to this thread, and I would appreciate it if you stopped posting nonsense." ; "his long list of bile rants and excuses."; "There is really no point in debating with ****ing idiots."; "It seems like a bunch of fucking BULLSHIT if you ask me." These are not just expressions of someone's feelings, but rather uncivil and personal attacks. The person who made this statement did eventually get banned, for repeating this kind of remark. It is a loss to the forum, in that this debater did have some things to offer.

But the admins and mods do feel that we must protect the forum from descending into the pointless name calling and one sided debate that many of the forums on (or against) religion frequently become.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #8

Post by Tired of the Nonsense »

McCulloch wrote: It is a sad thing that anyone would consider only the fire-breathing extremists to be the only ones on the other side why can be considered interesting.
Fine. I clearly misspoke with my original statement, so allow me to amend it. "Many" of the really interesting fire-breathing theists end up getting banned in the name of "civility." And I believe a lot of us are sorry to see them go.

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Post #9

Post by DiscipleOfTruth »

I was thinking about making a thread like this some time ago but never got around to it. Perhaps we are a bit too hard on the believers. Religion is a personal preference that appears self evident to them and some people are seemingly unable to live with out such beliefs. As much as I hate to admit it, religion is a nessecary evil-if some people didn't have it and accepted the unpromising reality that we have embraced I strongly believe they would commit suicide. Their beliefs make some of them as productive as they can ever be, living out their full potential. The only way for either side to have a victory over the other in this tug of war is for a generation of all believers or unbelievers to be the only ones on this earth for a time.

There is nothing wrong with thought provoking debate, but we have to preserve a balance or there won't even be a one lol.

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Post #10

Post by Dantalion »

DiscipleOfTruth wrote: I was thinking about making a thread like this some time ago but never got around to it. Perhaps we are a bit too hard on the believers. Religion is a personal preference that appears self evident to them and some people are seemingly unable to live with out such beliefs. As much as I hate to admit it, religion is a nessecary evil-if some people didn't have it and accepted the unpromising reality that we have embraced I strongly believe they would commit suicide. Their beliefs make some of them as productive as they can ever be, living out their full potential. The only way for either side to have a victory over the other in this tug of war is for a generation of all believers or unbelievers to be the only ones on this earth for a time.

There is nothing wrong with thought provoking debate, but we have to preserve a balance or there won't even be a one lol.
If anything we aren't hard enough.
Things like misrepresentation of atheism, special pleading fallacy, arguments from ignorance etc are still happening WAY too often.
I agree with you that we have to be patient and understanding towards people, but for me that vaporizes when you have to repeat in dozens of posts in dozens of threads for dozens of months to THE SAME THEIST that atheism is the lack of belief in a god and not an entire freaking world view.

What angers me is intellectual dishonesty.
Sure most of what we say sounds very harsh for theists, but it's not may fault they're fighting a losing battle though.

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