what to do?

[JasonBishara]

Hey guys

I was just wondering if I could get your thoughts on something. I seem to be caught between two very different frames of mind on how to deal with people of a religious tradition or faith. I used to be a Christian and made many close friendships within my church, since leaving my faith I have still remained close with many of my Christian friends and love them dearly.

On one hand I want to engage in positive debate and discussion about the Christian faith and reveal things to them I didn’t know about the bible, history, or science which completely changed my world view. I feel as thou I have a much better perspective for truth now than I ever did and want to share it with them. I want to tell them how liberating it was to let go of religion.

On the other i understand that religion is a way of life that gives many people around the world a lot of meaning and purpose in their lives and I feel as thou if i were to try to take that away from them simply because I have found life without it more liberating would be quite selfish. Some of my friends have grown up with religious traditions and faith there whole life and its all they know. They aren’t doing anything wrong by believing it and often do very charitable things.

What do you guys think?

[McCulloch]

Test the waters. If they show interest, then go ahead. If they are reluctant, then keep it to yourself, we don't like it when they come around and preach at us.

Meanwhile, if you need to get it out of your system, this is a good place.

[JoeyKnothead]

Test the waters. If they show interest, then go ahead. If they are reluctant, then keep it to yourself, we don't like it when they come around and preach at us.

Meanwhile, if you need to get it out of your system, this is a good place.

The man drops wisdom while digging in his pocket for change.

[tytlyf]

I'm taking it thaT your Christian friends don't know about your new found discovery on life?

I do agree with you about the liberation, I'm not sure most peoples intellectual capacities can understand the full scope of being a non-believer

[Zzyzx]

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Hi Jason,

Welcome to the forum. You pose an interesting question.

I seem to be caught between two very different frames of mind on how to deal with people of a religious tradition or faith. I used to be a Christian and made many close friendships within my church, since leaving my faith I have still remained close with many of my Christian friends and love them dearly.

Many religionists have difficulty accepting an “apostate� (“one who has renounced or forsaken his religious faith�) while they are still followers of that religion. Church teachings often council avoiding such people because they are potentially an “evil influence� that might lead the faithful “away from god�.

In other words, “watch out� – the preachers have already spoken against you – and bible stories have clearly said that you should be KILLLED if you suggest worshiping a false god (or presumably no god).

On one hand I want to engage in positive debate and discussion about the Christian faith and reveal things to them I didn’t know about the bible, history, or science which completely changed my world view.

While one is religious they often feel compelled to “share the good word� – when they become non-religious they may feel compelled to “share the good word�.

Perhaps it is prudent to hold one’s tongue (or lie down until the urge passes) in both cases.

I feel as thou I have a much better perspective for truth now than I ever did and want to share it with them. I want to tell them how liberating it was to let go of religion.

I would suggest that you consider posting your thoughts here and leaving your friends to their religious beliefs.

Challenging what they have believed since childhood (in most cases) is NOT likely to “open their eyes� (any more than preaching to a non-believer is likely to convert them). But it IS likely to make them into ex-friends – in both cases.

On the other i understand that religion is a way of life that gives many people around the world a lot of meaning and purpose in their lives and I feel as thou if i were to try to take that away from them simply because I have found life without it more liberating would be quite selfish.

Agreed 100%.

Many DEPEND upon their religion for their morals, for their decisions, for the “value� or “meaning� in life. Until THEY are ready to seek different directions, it may be unfair and presumptuous to interfere with their comfortable existence.

Some of my friends have grown up with religious traditions and faith there whole life and its all they know. They aren’t doing anything wrong by believing it and often do very charitable things.

Yes, those are people who might have great difficulty adjusting to “life without god�. Who are you (we) to say what is right for them?

It is one thing to present ideas in general – and quite another to target anyone’s personal and private beliefs. Although I am a strong opponent of organized, commercial religion, I am very cautious to avoid challenging anyone’s private beliefs.

What do you guys think?

Since you ask directly: Debate here and leave your friends alone UNLESS they specifically ask for your input regarding religious beliefs – and even then, be cautious about providing “too much information� for them to handle comfortably.

It is not your responsibility to “save� friends from religion any more than it is for them to “save� you from agnosticism. Kapish?

[realthinker]

Hey guys

I was just wondering if I could get your thoughts on something. I seem to be caught between two very different frames of mind on how to deal with people of a religious tradition or faith. I used to be a Christian and made many close friendships within my church, since leaving my faith I have still remained close with many of my Christian friends and love them dearly.

On one hand I want to engage in positive debate and discussion about the Christian faith and reveal things to them I didn’t know about the bible, history, or science which completely changed my world view. I feel as thou I have a much better perspective for truth now than I ever did and want to share it with them. I want to tell them how liberating it was to let go of religion.

On the other i understand that religion is a way of life that gives many people around the world a lot of meaning and purpose in their lives and I feel as thou if i were to try to take that away from them simply because I have found life without it more liberating would be quite selfish. Some of my friends have grown up with religious traditions and faith there whole life and its all they know. They aren’t doing anything wrong by believing it and often do very charitable things.

What do you guys think?

My advice is to first prepare yourself. You know what religion says and what your friends think. If you don't want to be an example of exactly what religion says a non-believer is, clean up your habits. Don't be condemning. Don't be belligerent. Don't scoff. Don't be blatantly subversive. You can be entirely compatible with what religions says a good person should be. I'd suggest it. Most of it will serve you well. The rest can't hurt you really.

Then build an understanding of why religion is here and so prominent. You can't escape the fact that it is and that, true or not, religion is real and has been beneficial. This will improve your appreciation. If you appreciate it you'll be more forgiving of its followers. If you need input on this, I'd be happy to give some ideas, as would a number of folks here.

When you've built a core of solid understanding of your own and are ready for the challenges you're sure to get, start living up to your beliefs in your behavior by not praying at family or social events, not participating in religious holidays. Let them bring it to you. And be consistent. Don't do it one way on your own and knuckle under to Mom or Grandma when they're around. It'll only confuse them.

When you're ready and confident in what you want to say, start challenging the religious nonsense you hear in conversation. Start with, "Sorry, but I don't accept that idea," and leave it at that. They won't likely come at you right away. Maybe start with common sense things. What do Christians know about the surface tension of water that suggests that anyone could walk on it? We know what it takes to change one material to another, and they didn't have particle accelerators and chemical synthesizers and such. Water into wine isn't happening.

Another approach is to point out the meaningless but well-used religious phrases. The "power" of prayer. How's that measured? Watts or horsepower? "God is love". What does that mean? You'll find plenty when you start looking for them.

Probably the biggest point is to be ready for a long, perhaps very long, period of stabilization. You and your friends will probably go through phases. If you maintain good will and exhibit it, sometimes in the face of opportunity to do otherwise, it's in their court. If you are genuinely a good person, supportive and kind, and they abandon you for difference of belief, they've chosen to discard something truly valuable.

[realthinker]

You can count on Christians to treat you right because the bible tells him to.

You can count on an atheist to treat you right because he knows he needs your good will to be an accepted part of the community.

A Christian counts on receiving God's forgiveness for his transgressions. He may never have or need the forgiveness of his fellow man, which may be you. His faith alone can be enough to save him. His practice of his faith is enough for him to keep his acceptance in the community, often in spite of his transgressions.

An atheist knows that the only forgiveness he'll ever receive is from the friends, family, and neighbors around him. Without it he's alone and hindered.

Who would you really trust to be a good neighbor? Someone who decides to do right or who is told to do right? Someone whose behavior is driven by a true appreciation for those around him, or whose behavior is to satisfy an idea from book?

Discover the practicality of atheism and what aspects of behavior and social interaction you're forced to satisfy personally rather than through conformity. It's big, and it can be overwhelming, especially when you're responsible for a family and its beliefs and its spiritual satisfaction. Atheism is a commitment to personal growth, the same as religiosity is.

[Furrowed Brow]

On one hand I want to engage in positive debate and discussion about the Christian faith and reveal things to them I didn’t know about the bible, history, or science which completely changed my world view. I feel as thou I have a much better perspective for truth now than I ever did and want to share it with them. I want to tell them how liberating it was to let go of religion.

Maybe you still got a little way to go before atheism sinks into your bone marrow.

[center]On one hand I want to engage in positive debate and discussion about [atheism] and reveal things to them [what they]
didn’t know about the bible, history, or science which [will] completely change[their world view]. I feel as thou
I have a much better perspective for truth now than I ever did and want to share it with them.
I want to tell them how liberating it was [to accept ]religion. [/center]
Looks like the same just reversed. Now when it is in your bones you’ll not worry about feeling liberated you’ll will just want to challenge logical fallacies, misappropriation of data, semantic muddles and sophism. The rest will take care of itself.