How to say it?

[Av8r]

I come from a family who are relatively strong Christians. I attended church as a kid, but not since. I've always questioned God's existence, but never spoke of it. These days, my family has gotten into religion much more than I ever remember. My brother got his first tattoo (and still the only tattoo) of a large stylized cross with a dove overlaid right on his forearm. My father now plays in the church's band. My aunt and uncle preached to me about how wrong it was and how disappointed they were that I'm living with my boyfriend without being married. I could go on and on. I generally avoid conflict at all costs, so admitting that I don't believe the same as them has still, to this day, not come out. I love my family very much, and I don't want them to think less of me because of my non-religious stance. I'm in my mid twenties, and I think it's time that I fully accept my beliefs and make it known. Not just with my family, but with anyone who tries to preach to me. Instead of just listening, nodding and letting it go, I think I'm ready to stand up for myself. But the question is how??

[Adurumus]

I guess the best thing you can do is tell them that you respect their opinion, have thought about it, but don't feel comfortable talking about it. You don't even have to include the "but I'm not religious" disclaimer, just say it makes you feel uneasy to discuss it.

Hmmm... I know that's the safe way to do things, and in my case it's probably the best idea for now. But I have to ask, why should we keep our mouths shut? Why is it ok for theists to express their beliefs, but it's wrong for us? Just a thought (and I'm sure it's already been discussed in this forum at one time or another, I just haven't found that thread yet).

Well, we shouldn't have to! Shout anything from the roof tops that you want to, if you feel strongly about it and are ready to defend yourself from the repercussions. But I think in your case, there's a personal touch to this. If your goal was to make your opinion heard, you could just bluntly take it up with your family. Oppose them directly, tell them how you feel, and demand respect for it.

But I feel like this isn't your goal. Your goal is to stay in good blood with your family and their friends. That means approaching it from a more gentle angle, and finding how you can get through to them without hurting your relationship.

Lastly, thanks for all the stories everyone. It's nice to find a group of people that I'm comfortable talking about this to. I hope none of my replies went over the line.

Not at all! It's refreshing to talk about these things in a supportive environment, and I'm happy that you trust us enough to discuss it.

[Goat]

Hmmm... I know that's the safe way to do things, and in my case it's probably the best idea for now. But I have to ask, why should we keep our mouths shut? Why is it ok for theists to express their beliefs, but it's wrong for us? Just a thought (and I'm sure it's already been discussed in this forum at one time or another, I just haven't found that thread yet).

Well, there are several factors to consider. It's not fair you have to keep you mouth shut, but you have to look at your family situation, and the social interactions from where you are. In the northeast, it most likely would not be a problem, since religion is not as overwhelming when it comes to social expectations.

You are stuck in the middle of the bible belt. It might not be fair, but for being able to keep the smoothness running with the social interactions with both the people around you, and your family, it is often better to keep a low profile. It could be awkward to be open. If you weren't smack in the middle of the bible belt, things would be different.

I agree with thatgirlagain's comment about questioning particular aspects of religion. I had started doing that and eventually someone called me out on it, so they got the truth. They weren't terribly shocked since I had been dropping hints for a while.

I will have to try that approach. I've also been dropping small hints to my immediate family. I think they know that I'm not on the same page as them, but they don't know my exact stance. Quite frankly, I've been having a really hard time admitting to myself that I'm atheist. I've been raised that the word has such a negative connotation to it. But why should it? This bothers me. I've felt guilty for believing what I believe, and that's wrong. No atheist should be ashamed for not believing. What do you all think?

Well, I don't feel guilty, I don't see why you should. Most of my immediate family is either agnostic at best, or mostly atheist

Some of my family are missionaries, telling them was fun! (sarcasm)

I didn't sit them down and give them 1 single, "I'm an atheist" talk.

I broke it into little pieces of, "why aren't you saying grace", "oh I don't believe".

That said it that method didn't go over particularily well. You may want to learn from my mistake and tell them when they aren't holding a pot full of gravy....

haha wow. That's interesting. I guess screaming to the world that I'm atheist isn't the way to go.


Lastly, thanks for all the stories everyone. It's nice to find a group of people that I'm comfortable talking about this to. I hope none of my replies went over the line.

No.. I think you will find that many of the ex-Christians here went through similar experiences. I am very lucky in that my family is very flexible and very much into letting people be themselves. If someone wanted to be very religious, it would be fine. If they were atheists, fine. If they were gay or bisexual, that is just what they are.

[Av8r]

Well, we shouldn't have to! Shout anything from the roof tops that you want to, if you feel strongly about it and are ready to defend yourself from the repercussions. But I think in your case, there's a personal touch to this. If your goal was to make your opinion heard, you could just bluntly take it up with your family. Oppose them directly, tell them how you feel, and demand respect for it.

But I feel like this isn't your goal. Your goal is to stay in good blood with your family and their friends. That means approaching it from a more gentle angle, and finding how you can get through to them without hurting your relationship.

You are absolutely right, there is a personal touch to this. I don't want there to be, but there is. I've always felt the need to feel accepted with the family. Probably because we are very close. I think I'll take you and everyone else's advice and keep a low key. I will use this forum to learn, so that I can be prepared when the issue arises. If the subject does come up though, I don't think I can just sit back and take it anymore. Hopefully they will respect me for it even though I am different.

Well, there are several factors to consider. It's not fair you have to keep you mouth shut, but you have to look at your family situation, and the social interactions from where you are. In the northeast, it most likely would not be a problem, since religion is not as overwhelming when it comes to social expectations.

You are stuck in the middle of the bible belt. It might not be fair, but for being able to keep the smoothness running with the social interactions with both the people around you, and your family, it is often better to keep a low profile. It could be awkward to be open. If you weren't smack in the middle of the bible belt, things would be different.

That brings up a really great point. I had never considered how my location could have such an impact. I really want to stand up for myself and atheists everywhere once I gain enough knowledge, but it might just make things worse. A lot of people already consider atheism bad, so that last thing I want to do is make things worse. We aren't bad people! You are all some of the nicest, most civil people that I've talked to.

No.. I think you will find that many of the ex-Christians here went through similar experiences. I am very lucky in that my family is very flexible and very much into letting people be themselves. If someone wanted to be very religious, it would be fine. If they were atheists, fine. If they were gay or bisexual, that is just what they are.

That's fantastic! I'm very much the same way as your family, and that it doesn't matter what your religion, race, or sexual orientation is, I still respect you. I think my immediate family would be ok with me being atheist, but a bit disappointed. In general, I'm a very independent person and have always done my own thing, so this probably wouldn't be too off the wall. It's my grandparents, aunts and uncles, and friends that I'm a little more concerned about. I guess time will tell...

[McCulloch]

Quite frankly, I've been having a really hard time admitting to myself that I'm atheist. I've been raised that the word has such a negative connotation to it. But why should it? This bothers me. I've felt guilty for believing what I believe, and that's wrong. No atheist should be ashamed for not believing. What do you all think?

This may be off topic, but sometimes I have a problem with the label atheist. I mean, we don't label anyone for other stuff they don't believe in. I may be a non-astrologer and an agnomist, but those who believe in astrology or gnomes don't slap those labels on me. For times like that, I prefer the label Humanist (link to my posting of the Amsterdam Declaration 2002 of the World Humanist Congress.)

[Charles Darwin]

I don't know your family so i wont tell you what to do or how to do it since everyone is different and will react differently but I will tell you my story

I was "Raised" in the luthern church and got along very well with the local pastor, i was friends with his son who was a year older than me and i spent alot of time at their house. i believed very much and loved god. This pastor always talked about the loving god, who would forgive all our sins, and take away our pain, fears and torment if only we asked, who would never harm a fly etc

When i was about 8 years old this pastor left our area as was customary, to keep the church fresh pastors were moved after a preset period of time. We got a new pastor...

this pastor was a polar opposite of the pastor i grew up loving..fire a brimstone, jesus was a sword weilding, fire throwing instrument of god's total disdain for us humans and our only hope of avoiding his wrath was to kiss his ass.

this obviously left a stark contrast in my mind compared to what "my" pastor had told me, but i was raised or was born with some semblance of critical thinking and realized either pastor could be right especially since they both used the bible to justify their views, but both could not be true, so i figured the best way was to read the bible for myself so i set out on a long journey that found me reading the bible twice, once in the KJV and in the NIV speaking with both "my" pastor and the new pastor, as well as other church leaders about the questions i had written down while i was reading the bible and they all answered differently and the only answer I would get that wasn't an exercise in circular reasoning(not that i knew what it was but i recognized it was not really an answer even at an early age) was that i should not worry about it and instead just focus on praising and worshiping god. which also made no sense to me since i did not know which version of this god i was even praising

this whole time i kept my doubts from my parents as much as i could they obviously knew i was asking questions but since i had always been a very religious child they figured it was just part of my spiritual growth.

as time drew i saw doubts and hesitation in the adults as my questions became more indepth and as i realized later, more sharp and painful to their own faith, but as a child i had seen a similar reaction only a few years earlier, when i realized santa clause was BS, so i began to suspect god was like santa clause only more elaborate, i began to think

[Charles Darwin]

I don't know your family so i wont tell you what to do or how to do it since everyone is different and will react differently but I will tell you my story

I was "Raised" in the luthern church and got along very well with the local pastor, i was friends with his son who was a year older than me and i spent alot of time at their house. i believed very much and loved god. This pastor always talked about the loving god, who would forgive all our sins, and take away our pain, fears and torment if only we asked, who would never harm a fly etc

When i was about 8 years old this pastor left our area as was customary, to keep the church fresh pastors were moved after a preset period of time. We got a new pastor...

this pastor was a polar opposite of the pastor i grew up loving..fire a brimstone, jesus was a sword weilding, fire throwing instrument of god's total disdain for us humans and our only hope of avoiding his wrath was to kiss his ass.

this obviously left a stark contrast in my mind compared to what "my" pastor had told me, but i was raised or was born with some semblance of critical thinking and realized either pastor could be right especially since they both used the bible to justify their views, but both could not be true, so i figured the best way was to read the bible for myself so i set out on a long journey that found me reading the bible twice, once in the KJV and in the NIV speaking with both "my" pastor and the new pastor, as well as other church leaders about the questions i had written down while i was reading the bible and they all answered differently and the only answer I would get that wasn't an exercise in circular reasoning(not that i knew what it was but i recognized it was not really an answer even at an early age) was that i should not worry about it and instead just focus on praising and worshiping god. which also made no sense to me since i did not know which version of this god i was even praising

this whole time i kept my doubts from my parents as much as i could they obviously knew i was asking questions but since i had always been a very religious child they figured it was just part of my spiritual growth.

as time drew i saw doubts and hesitation in the adults as my questions became more indepth and as i realized later, more sharp and painful to their own faith, but as a child i had seen a similar reaction only a few years earlier, when i realized santa clause was BS, so i began to suspect god was like santa clause only more elaborate, i began to think it was something adults told kids for who knows why

so when i began to realize that only did these two gods not make sense as one god..but they didnt even make sense on their own, i felt comfortable coming out to my parents because i figured they would have somewhat similar reaction to this as when

[Charles Darwin]

I don't know your family so i wont tell you what to do or how to do it since everyone is different and will react differently but I will tell you my story

I was "Raised" in the luthern church and got along very well with the local pastor, i was friends with his son who was a year older than me and i spent alot of time at their house. i believed very much and loved god. This pastor always talked about the loving god, who would forgive all our sins, and take away our pain, fears and torment if only we asked, who would never harm a fly etc

When i was about 8 years old this pastor left our area as was customary, to keep the church fresh pastors were moved after a preset period of time. We got a new pastor...

this pastor was a polar opposite of the pastor i grew up loving..fire a brimstone, jesus was a sword weilding, fire throwing instrument of god's total disdain for us humans and our only hope of avoiding his wrath was to kiss his ass.

this obviously left a stark contrast in my mind compared to what "my" pastor had told me, but i was raised or was born with some semblance of critical thinking and realized either pastor could be right especially since they both used the bible to justify their views, but both could not be true, so i figured the best way was to read the bible for myself so i set out on a long journey that found me reading the bible twice, once in the KJV and in the NIV speaking with both "my" pastor and the new pastor, as well as other church leaders about the questions i had written down while i was reading the bible and they all answered differently and the only answer I would get that wasn't an exercise in circular reasoning(not that i knew what it was but i recognized it was not really an answer even at an early age) was that i should not worry about it and instead just focus on praising and worshiping god. which also made no sense to me since i did not know which version of this god i was even praising

this whole time i kept my doubts from my parents as much as i could they obviously knew i was asking questions but since i had always been a very religious child they figured it was just part of my spiritual growth.

as time drew i saw doubts and hesitation in the adults as my questions became more indepth and as i realized later, more sharp and painful to their own faith, but as a child i had seen a similar reaction only a few years earlier, when i realized santa clause was BS, so i began to suspect god was like santa clause only more elaborate, i began to think it was something adults told kids for who knows why

so when i began to realize that only did these two gods not make sense as one god..but they didnt even make sense on their own, i felt comfortable coming out to my parents because i figured they would have somewhat similar reaction to this as when i told them i thought santa was a lie

needless to say, i was wrong about their reactions lol but they underestimated how much i had learned and thought about religion in the years prior to this and when they could not crack my questions and indeed i think my ability to shake their faith scared them, they invited several pastors from several churches to our house to "save my soul" and indeed they tried, but again i had questions they could not answer and when i pointed out their flawed logical circles they stammered and said god was just too mysterious for us, which i pointed out was no answer at all

now at this time i still wasn't an atheist and i still believed in god, just not the christian god(though i still said i was a christian because at this point it was still the only god i knew) i just didn't believe in the church

however as these emotionally painful debates went on, and i got a chance to see even more diverse views on the christian god, i realized just how flawed the whole idea of a god was. One day as i was thinking about all of this, and being terrified of hell, but i pushed through the fear and closed my eyes..walked out the front door to my house and said "ok im going to imagine a world where no gods exist..and try to explain anything that looks like it must have been god;s work w/o a god"

i opened my eyes, and i felt a great relief, it was the first time i saw the world as it was..and it was more beautiful than i had ever seen it before, this lasted for a short time until the fear of hell crept back in but the first large crack in my faith in any god had been found..and it only grew larger with every day as i learned more and more about the world around me i explained more and more w/o a need for a god and realised even sying god did it was not an answer.

it did not take long and any faith in any god was gone from my brain. I grew up in a small town and so word had spread quickly about my lack of faith, and i forced to chose to lie about who i was and what i thought, or to say what i beleived, say what i thought and let people like me for me or not at all.

eventually it became old news and only the odd person would try to convert me(most people had heard down the grape vine that all but a few preachers had already attempted it and had gone away with their faith shaken more than my own) had the occasional person refuse to let me into their home or refuse to let their kids spend time with me.

my family actually took the brunt of it, with people telling my parents they had failed, that i was possesed or simply excluding them from community events and the like. This was hard for me to see but it was too late to go back, i had already made my bed in the community and i couldnt make a convincing enough feign of faith to convince people because i had forgotten what it felt like to really truly beleive.

it was lonely but an honest path to walk, i was an atheist for 3 years before i knew what an atheist was, i was watching the news one day and heard a story about atheists, and how they didnt beleieve in god, the story painted them negatively but i was used to it, and realized for the first time in my life that i was not the only person who thought this way. growing up in a small town you forget how big the world is and how diverse it can be. It was an amazing feeling to know that i was not alone and that when i got out of the small town i grew up in i would be able to find people who would accept my beleifs because they also held them. it was a very uplifting and powerful moment. i immediately went to the library and used the lone computer there to search all i could about this new group of friends i had..the "atheists" even though i couldnt talk to them directly, i felt such kinship with these people writing about atheism that it gave me hope, something i did not have before.

OK so if you dont want to read the whole thing here you go:

it was hard at first but i was and am a stubborn person and only grew stronger with the disdain people showed to me, developed close group of friends who were christians but did not care that i was not a beleiver, a group of friends who i am still very close with, 3 of whom will be my groomsmen for my wedding this saturday.

2 of them have since become atheists as well, not because i pushed them to or even argued with them. but when we would talk about current events religions would some times come up and through teaching and explaining my own thoughts and how i came to certain conclusions i inadvertently taught them critical thinking and had passed on my own knowledge of science and the workings of the universe

my family eventually accepted it, although my eldest sister still says i only "say" im atheist because i like the attention, what ever that means, as anymore i dont get much attention from it unless i go out of my way to find it.

my dad even has come out as an atheist, and revealed he also never really bought the story but didnt have the knowledge to tear himself away from the lies he was spoon fed as a child. I have 3 nephews from my brother who is an elder in the church, he pushes his kids hard to be good christians but as they get older i can see the same drift as i experienced and i know that just knowing that youre not alone in these doubts and feelings is a powerful force and like a wooden lattice to a climbing vine, i dont pressure them or push my views on them, if they want to escape the circular logic, the fear, and the lies, i will be there to provide strength as they discover their own views and try to prevent them trading one set of lies for another.

I have two toddler nephews and one infant neice, and plan on doing the same for them as well as my own children.

so again to the OP i dont know what you should do, i dont know how your family and friends will react..i lost family i lost friends, but i gained better friends i told my family who i really was and they could either accept it or chose not to.

in the end i would not have done a single thing differently, this path gave me alot of strength not only in my views on religion but also with who i am and what i can do. It helped me to make in some ways change a small town that is now home to at least 3 non believers in a town of only 1000 people. it taught me the value of making up your mind and not bending to authority(which is sort of odd since i ended up becoming an authority figure as a police officer) at least not unless that authority can explain why you should listen to it with out using bad logical reasoning.

Most importantly to me though, in coming out, i kno i give strength to others who might feel the same way, so they wont have to think they are completely alone in their doubts like i did. and that is why i think as long as there is no physical threats to yourself i think all non beleivers should come out but i know its harder than many people want to deal with. but even if you think youre in a room of beleivers, you might not be..and you showing the courage to stand up and say "no im not like you" gives them the strength to continue to follow their doubts to see where they lead..and when theyre ready to stand up..they will know its possible to get through it and survive..be happy and be successful as an atheist

[Av8r]

This may be off topic, but sometimes I have a problem with the label atheist. I mean, we don't label anyone for other stuff they don't believe in. I may be a non-astrologer and an agnomist, but those who believe in astrology or gnomes don't slap those labels on me. For times like that, I prefer the label Humanist (link to my posting of the Amsterdam Declaration 2002 of the World Humanist Congress.)

No problem in going a little off topic. I encourage any questions, advice or comments that anyone has to offer. I was reading about Humanism the other day. I will take a look at your link tonight. I'm curious. Thanks

it was hard at first but i was and am a stubborn person and only grew stronger with the disdain people showed to me, developed close group of friends who were christians but did not care that i was not a beleiver, a group of friends who i am still very close with, 3 of whom will be my groomsmen for my wedding this saturday.

First off, congrats on the upcoming wedding! That's wonderful news.

2 of them have since become atheists as well, not because i pushed them to or even argued with them. but when we would talk about current events religions would some times come up and through teaching and explaining my own thoughts and how i came to certain conclusions i inadvertently taught them critical thinking and had passed on my own knowledge of science and the workings of the universe

This is kinda off topic, but what major things influenced you in regards to choosing atheism?

Most importantly to me though, in coming out, i kno i give strength to others who might feel the same way, so they wont have to think they are completely alone in their doubts like i did. and that is why i think as long as there is no physical threats to yourself i think all non beleivers should come out but i know its harder than many people want to deal with. but even if you think youre in a room of beleivers, you might not be..and you showing the courage to stand up and say "no im not like you" gives them the strength to continue to follow their doubts to see where they lead..and when theyre ready to stand up..they will know its possible to get through it and survive..be happy and be successful as an atheist

I appreciate the support! I know I'm not alone, there's plenty of atheists out there but they're far and in-between around here. Unlike your childhood town, I live with about 70,000 other people, not counting all the other cities at our backdoor. And although there seems to be a church at every corner, 'coming out' isn't going to create quite the stir that you had, except for the people close to me. As far as not being like most people, I'm used to that lol. I do a lot of non-traditional things for being female. Regardless, I'm certainly nervous about telling people my belief, but I can only imagine how great it will feel to finally say it. Anyways, thanks for sharing your story

[Charles Darwin]

I wouldnt say i chose atheism, more that i have a desire to be a reasonable rational thoughtful person about every aspect of my life. I could have compartmentalized i suppose but I would have been annoyingly aware that I had a large red herring in my head named god.

So i guess to answer your question as I understand it. I think the biggest thing was that I, for some reason more than my siblings and more than people who are able to compartmentalize, had to be uniform in my process of thought.

I think something that helped to a certain degree too was that i did not have any kids my own age who lived near by(we lived about 10 miles from the next kid my age) so i had alot of time with few distractions so i thought alot as a kid about the world and how to figure things out.we didn't have internet or tv and so if the local library didn't have a book on it I had to figure things out on my own.


and thanks for the wedding well wishes

[McCulloch]

Charles Darwin, are you aware of the grammatical anomaly in your avatar? Does "Atheists think free" imply that theists pay for their thoughts? Or did you really intend "Atheists think freely" ?