The Mystery Factor...

[Chad]

I somehow got into a discussion with a friend over what appeared to be him being uncomfortable with the fact that I’m an Atheist. I normally don’t talk about being an Atheist, but he noticed one of the bookmarks I had for FireFox. Anyways, it started as a simple discussion about Queen Bees (Don’t ask how that started, lol). Then he persisted to ask, in an impatient manner, “How do we know what came first, the chicken or the egg?” I simply stated that there was biological answer for that question, but instead of letting me explain, he exclaimed (He was actually getting mad at this point) that the fact that it exists means that it came from somewhere. I’m not too sure what prompted that statement, but I questioned him what he meant. He told me, “You don’t believe that earth just appeared out of nowhere do you?” I said of course not, we have quite a few widely accepted ideas on how galaxies and solar systems form. He then quickly asked about the formation of the Universe. I told him the Big Bang partially explains that, then he cut me off and said “When was the last time you saw something appear from nothing! It must have been created!”. I tried to explain to him that anything beyond the Big Bang is merely speculation, but we have observed quantum fluctuations, where particles seem to appear from nothing within a vacuum. I told him at the end, if he interested about this subject he should really start to read some books about it.

This is what got me…he told me there are some things in life that he would rather not know how they work and that they be left a mystery. This is something I cannot understand. Out of all of my friends, he is one of the few that isn’t a Christian, yet he refuses to educate himself about a very interesting topic and is the most hostile to me when discussing any sort of subject matter pertaining to religion or the origin of life and how it evolves.

Is the belief that life/the universe is mysterious, and should remain so, a reason why so many people cling to a certain faith and don’t let go? Does this mystery intrigue them in some sort of way? I have a hard time understanding why anyone would want it to remain a mystery. Is it a fear that an underlying doubt of their faith will be shattered if they make a reasonable attempt to understand some real science? Is it a fear that we truly are alone in the Universe, in a God type sense? However, that is something I never understood either. God never intervenes, he never shows himself, he doesn’t come down and shake your hand, and he doesn’t “hang out” with you, how could you possibly feel his loss when he was never there to begin with?

Has anyone here had similar experiences when talking to others about this sort of subject?

[ST88]

Yeah, every other day. I don't think that it's a question of maintaining a mystery. After all, as you said, the pre-Big Bang condition is a perfectly good mystery. But there is a quasi-field of astrophysics that has to to with possible pre-Big Bang conditions. And most of us have no idea about the speculative mathematical concepts involved, even if we were to have it all explained to us. Most of us don't can't even wrap our minds around the idea of a Big Bang - the beginning of time and space. I mean, what the heck are you supposed to do with that? There's nothing intuitive about thinking about these things, they all have to be backed up with the physics and the math.

Now consider the mystery of religions. The key part here is that people say it's a mystery -- God works in mysterious ways & all that. But really, it's been my experience that many people who state that it's a religious mystery don't really believe it's a true mystery at all. They think they've got it figured out for the most part. There's always that invisible God issue, but they truly believe that they know what God wants of them and probably even why. It's more of a riddle than a mystery, which is to say that you either know the answer or you don't. There's no math, there's no physics; it's a gut feeling, an intuition that you just know because you know. And there are many others who have this same intuition -- this same (in my opinion) mistaken gut feeling that there is something mystical about life, and that this God explanation is what helps snap everything into place. For me it's simple biology -- the brain is built to believe in irrational ideas.

As to your friend's statement that he would rather not know the mechanics involved in planet creation, it strikes me as something that isn't quite what he really means; that, instead, it's a catch phrase used to head off criticism of his world view. I have my suspicions about why someone would not want to find out how these things actually work, but I don't think it's a matter for things remaining mysterious.

[Chad]

Yeah, every other day. I don't think that it's a question of maintaining a mystery. After all, as you said, the pre-Big Bang condition is a perfectly good mystery. But there is a quasi-field of astrophysics that has to to with possible pre-Big Bang conditions. And most of us have no idea about the speculative mathematical concepts involved, even if we were to have it all explained to us. Most of us don't can't even wrap our minds around the idea of a Big Bang - the beginning of time and space. I mean, what the heck are you supposed to do with that? There's nothing intuitive about thinking about these things, they all have to be backed up with the physics and the math.

I also can't help but notice that my friends who are religious also have a very interesting outlook on so called paranormal events and the supernatural. They tend to feel as though there must be something happening which we can not adequately detect. This mystery surrounding the supernatural and paranormal strikes them as more interesting then any serious modern science mystery. Maybe it's because the ease to grasp the ideas and the "cool" factor behind the idea of the supernatural, such as ghosts. On the other hand, the modern science mysteries are a mystery for a reason - There's probably some heavy research, thinking and testing to be done. Of course, that doesn't disqualify anyone from learning about it and be just as astonished by that as they would any other mystery - though it does seem to create a road block for many people.

Now consider the mystery of religions. The key part here is that people say it's a mystery -- God works in mysterious ways & all that. But really, it's been my experience that many people who state that it's a religious mystery don't really believe it's a true mystery at all. They think they've got it figured out for the most part. There's always that invisible God issue, but they truly believe that they know what God wants of them and probably even why. It's more of a riddle than a mystery, which is to say that you either know the answer or you don't. There's no math, there's no physics; it's a gut feeling, an intuition that you just know because you know. And there are many others who have this same intuition -- this same (in my opinion) mistaken gut feeling that there is something mystical about life, and that this God explanation is what helps snap everything into place. For me it's simple biology -- the brain is built to believe in irrational ideas.

I definitely agree with you here, and you put it quite nicely. I would expand on last sentence you wrote though. It would seem to me that the brain is built to believe what it believes to be true. Whether the idea is actually irrational or not doesn't matter to it. Children, I think, are the most vulnerable to this. One of the earliest event's that I can recall in my life is sitting in church with my parents. For many of my early years I thought, for no good reason other than it most likely being told to me repeatedly, that there must be a God, a heaven, a hell and to think otherwise would be bad. I bet if you asked me why I thought such a thing, I wouldn't really know why I thought that way. I would have no evidence or logic to support it. So to wrap it up, I feel that the brain is built to believe what it determines to be true and it just so happens that some of these are rather irrational.

As to your friend's statement that he would rather not know the mechanics involved in planet creation, it strikes me as something that isn't quite what he really means; that, instead, it's a catch phrase used to head off criticism of his world view. I have my suspicions about why someone would not want to find out how these things actually work, but I don't think it's a matter for things remaining mysterious.

Now that I think about it, I think it was an attempt to head off criticism of his world view. It would be nice if he didn't take it that way. I like to teach people and help them out. It's too bad that he doesn't want to take any kind of effort to educate himself a little though. I even had to explain to him why you wouldn't hear anything in space! Bleh, oh well.