Useful Religious Ideas

[ST88]

There's a lot of vitriol and condescension among atheists towards the religious and the spiritual. There's no doubt that a great deal of horror in the world was committed in the name of religion, and some of it was directly caused by religious practices. But in all likelihood, the same characters who appeared in these historical religious horror-dramas, like Torquemada, would have been just as sociopathic without the Catholic inspiration. Many times, religion was just an excuse for the legitimacy of a land grab, such as the Balkans throughout history. The land grab would have happened regardless -- religion just provided a convenient casus belli.

But this thread isn't about religious horror, it's about religious beneficence. In my opinion, there is real social and personal benefit that was derived from religion and religious thought, from the foundation of ethics to medical prayer. Among the apologies, the rationalizations, and the justifications, there are also the empathies and the decencies.

A lot of this kind of thought was wasted on religion as it applied to a Christian God. Some of the most intelligent philosophers of the Dark Ages wrestled with valid human ethical ideas, but because they were trapped in a religious framework, they tended to justify the existence of the religious infrastructure rather than further the cause of human thought. Similarly, some of the most beautiful works of art were dedicated to religious scenes or ideas. This doesn't change their genius or the beauty of their works -- chances are, similar paintings, pieces of music, and writings would have been dedicated to some other ideal, like nationalism or historical figures or some such. But it does bring up the idea of where artists tend to look for inspiration.

Is there something about the idea of religion that inherently captures the imaginations of artists, or is it merely the expression of the culture of the times that religion figures prominently in art?

I ask the non-religious among us to make the question honest: What ideals or ideas have come from various religions around the world that serve to make the world, even the secular world, a better place?

[Corvus]

There's a lot of vitriol and condescension among atheists towards the religious and the spiritual. There's no doubt that a great deal of horror in the world was committed in the name of religion, and some of it was directly caused by religious practices. But in all likelihood, the same characters who appeared in these historical religious horror-dramas, like Torquemada, would have been just as sociopathic without the Catholic inspiration. Many times, religion was just an excuse for the legitimacy of a land grab, such as the Balkans throughout history. The land grab would have happened regardless -- religion just provided a convenient casus belli.

But this thread isn't about religious horror, it's about religious beneficence. In my opinion, there is real social and personal benefit that was derived from religion and religious thought, from the foundation of ethics to medical prayer. Among the apologies, the rationalizations, and the justifications, there are also the empathies and the decencies.

A lot of this kind of thought was wasted on religion as it applied to a Christian God. Some of the most intelligent philosophers of the Dark Ages wrestled with valid human ethical ideas, but because they were trapped in a religious framework, they tended to justify the existence of the religious infrastructure rather than further the cause of human thought. Similarly, some of the most beautiful works of art were dedicated to religious scenes or ideas. This doesn't change their genius or the beauty of their works -- chances are, similar paintings, pieces of music, and writings would have been dedicated to some other ideal, like nationalism or historical figures or some such. But it does bring up the idea of where artists tend to look for inspiration.

Is there something about the idea of religion that inherently captures the imaginations of artists, or is it merely the expression of the culture of the times that religion figures prominently in art?

In all likelihood, it's both. I have never known a single factor to be the driving force of the subject of art.

I ask the non-religious among us to make the question honest: What ideals or ideas have come from various religions around the world that serve to make the world, even the secular world, a better place?

There are some very good charities and some very bad charities begun by Christian sects. I tend to look very favourably on Anglicans, who, from my contact with them, have a charming neighbourly regard for the people around them. I work for a non-profit, non-denominational store and warehouse that was founded by Anglicans, and can think of two other charities in the area also founded by them. The reason they are so predominant in the area may have something to do with Australia having a mainly British heritage.

As you mentioned, there is also art and music, the aesthetic appeal of secular artists depicting religious imagery and the ascetic appeal of the simple yet beautiful music of monks. Benedictine and chartreuse are also very high on my list, and wasn't it a monk that discovered beer? Catholicism has to be given some respect for retaining the works of the old world in their monasteries after Rome fell.

My experience with other religions is quite limited, though buddhism strikes me as an ideology most beneficial to the world, although I'd never follow it. I am no stoic.

[przemeknowicki]

ST88,

Incidentally you posted the topic that is the subject of my work as a prophet. Yes, you hear it right. I am a prophet and am asking the atheists to help me with my work. To understand each other better I propose my definition of religion. Religion is the "soul" of a nation, something that keeps the nation, or a social group together. Religion can be secular as patriotism is. Religion is different than the spiritual teachings/beliefs attributed to it. In fact, there may be many different spiritual doctrines inside one religion. The new religion I am promoting is designed to accommodate many spiritual beliefs present in this country including atheism.

The new religion is called Freedom Gates and it has roots in Christianity. I refer to Christianity for two reasons. The first reason is that I am coming with the same message as Jesus Christ did. The second reason is that in this time and place Christianity is the only ideology suitable for my mission. To understand this is to answer the question ST88 posted. You see, the real benefits of Christianity from the historical perspective is its function as the universal idea in the continuation of the work started by the Roman Empire. The Romans established the laws, Christianity provided the spirit of the law with the idea of Christian love. The Christianity gave birth to such ideas and institutions as Red Cross and the United Nations. Finally, at this time the Christianity as it evolved in Europe become secular, tolerant and ripe for receiving the original message of Jesus Christ. It is the only ideology ready to embrace multitude of spiritual beliefs and be embraced by them in return. Of course, I am not talking about the Vatican, Christian fundamentalists and not even about this country in many cultural and ideological aspects years behind the progressive forces in Europe. In this country the closest thing to the ideal I am talking about is the Unitarian Church but this organization is too religious to apply. To make myself clear I need to explain that from the spiritual perspective Christianity is one of the worst religious doctrines but we are talking about politics here. My mission is mostly political and even if I present myself as the Spokesman of God I am not talking about God. I cannot even answer your question if God exists. I am a politician and not your spiritual advisor.

Thomas Orr