Shortage of Christians Around?

[C-Nub]

Not the sort of thing I ever thought I'd be lamenting, but we seem to be getting somewhat critically short of Christians. At this point, most of our threads asking questions are answered first by five to ten non-theists, and then, if we're lucky, one or two Christians. (Or Gnostics...)

Now, if it were because there were fewer Christians on earth, I'd celebrate that, but honestly, I think we're driving them away or, in some cases, converting them. Both are alright with me, since 'driving away' means that they can no longer argue, and hopefully walk away realizing that their position is much weaker than they originally thought, or like I said, they've been converted.

The problem, though, is that without theists to debate, or for that matter, moderate theists to balance out the current crop of mostly fundamentalists we're currently dealing with, we sort of lose our purpose here.

We either have people like CNorman, who are people of faith with all the qualities of agnosticism, making them very good to have around but very difficult to argue with, or people who'll argue almost insupportable positions without the ability (or at least willingness) to grasp or accept the most basic and fundamental of scientific principles, making them difficult to argue with (and not particularly good to have around, on the forums or the planet.)

Is it my imagination? Am I just not in the same threads as the active (and moderate) theists, or is there really a growing shortage of quality opposition to the atheist point of view here?

And if so, should we do something? And if so, uh, what?

[Zzyzx]

..

1) a claim of bias because they find it's if not impossible, then very difficult indeed, to argue for God and the supernatural in general without invoking logical fallacies. Followed by disappearance.

2) they realise they can't back up what they've said and don't want to admit it, followed by disappearance.

3) they give up on people who are so intent on not seeing the 'truth', followed by disappearance.

4)they realise they've been caught in a lie, followed by disappearance, with perhaps a future reappearance when it is judged that the issue might have 'died down'.

Excellent and perceptive. I would add:

5) Embarrassment caused by making repeated blunders while "attacking the infidel to defend the faith"

6) Stress of being overly emotional when "sacred" beliefs are challenged or criticized (perhaps an unfamiliar experience for believers accustomed to being in the company of fellow god worshipers).


That said, what can we DO about the lack of capable Christian debaters? There are virtually no fundamentalists / literalists who present arguments above high school level. The several very capable and credible theist members are decidedly NOT traditional Christians or are not Christians at all.

As someone said, "it is no more challenging than beating up my little brother".

Can we invite (or challenge) Christian acquaintances to become members? I know a couple ministers who I would thoroughly enjoy debating -- but who I doubt would be up to the challenge. Maybe some would?

[aawhc]

May I suggest going onto Christian (Or any religion for that matter) forums, and simply suggesting to them that if they feel they can make a difference in our lives and convert us, hold their own in a faith based argument, or explain Christianity well, then they should head on over to debatingchristianity.com

Most Christian forums don't want argument and debate over Christiantiy on their forums, so instead, we invite them to visit ours if they so desire.

[bernee51]

May I suggest going onto Christian (Or any religion for that matter) forums, and simply suggesting to them that if they feel they can make a difference in our lives and convert us, hold their own in a faith based argument, or explain Christianity well, then they should head on over to debatingchristianity.com

Most Christian forums don't want argument and debate over Christiantiy on their forums, so instead, we invite them to visit ours if they so desire.

off you go....

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

May I suggest going onto Christian (Or any religion for that matter) forums, and simply suggesting to them that if they feel they can make a difference in our lives and convert us, hold their own in a faith based argument, or explain Christianity well, then they should head on over to debatingchristianity.com

Most Christian forums don't want argument and debate over Christiantiy on their forums, so instead, we invite them to visit ours if they so desire.

Please don't. The place will be flooded with preachers and proselytizers. We might get a few good members out of it, but the vast majority would likely do nothing but preach (as spreading the word of Christ would seem like a logical goal for a Christian forum). Not only that but most forums hate those one-post spammers that are just there to advertise.

[Mister E]

Please don't. The place will be flooded with preachers and proselytizers. We might get a few good members out of it, but the vast majority would likely do nothing but preach (as spreading the word of Christ would seem like a logical goal for a Christian forum). Not only that but most forums hate those one-post spammers that are just there to advertise.

In a case where preachers will not listen, ignorance can work both ways - you don't have to respond to a person unwilling/too close-minded to listen to you.

Also, one-post spammers aren't real people - they're bots. My assumption is that this site already recieves bot advertising but it is autodetected and deleted in the modcp.

[Homicidal_Cherry53]

Please don't. The place will be flooded with preachers and proselytizers. We might get a few good members out of it, but the vast majority would likely do nothing but preach (as spreading the word of Christ would seem like a logical goal for a Christian forum). Not only that but most forums hate those one-post spammers that are just there to advertise.

In a case where preachers will not listen, ignorance can work both ways - you don't have to respond to a person unwilling/too close-minded to listen to you.

No, you don't have to respond, but some preachers can produce an ungodly amount of spam. I remember one person who was trying to denounce evolution and promote Islam must have posted fifteen separate topics, the majority of which had to be moved to the random ramblings section. It's a pain for the mods to have to move/delete the posts, and it's a pain for me to look through all the topics and figure out which ones really involve debate, and which ones are just someone trying to convert.

Also, one-post spammers aren't real people - they're bots. My assumption is that this site already recieves bot advertising but it is autodetected and deleted in the modcp.

Sometimes they are bots, but my experiences on other forums tell me that they are frequently real people. Most forums have ways of preventing bots from signing up and posting, so those that actually do sign up are usually real people, and in my experience, many spammers will try to defend their post after someone calls it spam. It would be tough for a bot to be programmed to do that.

[Mister E]

No, you don't have to respond, but some preachers can produce an ungodly amount of spam. I remember one person who was trying to denounce evolution and promote Islam must have posted fifteen separate topics, the majority of which had to be moved to the random ramblings section. It's a pain for the mods to have to move/delete the posts, and it's a pain for me to look through all the topics and figure out which ones really involve debate, and which ones are just someone trying to convert.

Idk, it's rather simple to delete post/topics, 15 threads being moved/deleted after a brief skim-read takes up about three minutes so it can't be too difficult. I would rather have more members and a few spam members than be have an ultra-elitist forum, not that I own this forum

[/quote]
Sometimes they are bots, but my experiences on other forums tell me that they are frequently real people. Most forums have ways of preventing bots from signing up and posting, so those that actually do sign up are usually real people, and in my experience, many spammers will try to defend their post after someone calls it spam. It would be tough for a bot to be programmed to do that.[/quote]

I partially agree with you, but bot prevention isn't a speciality of PHP, especially forums. There are ridiculous amounts of SQL exploits that can be used to bypass security questions - you can also bypass the security preventing one from posting as a guest, as well. About 37000 members on the forum I moderate are bot users - I have so far moderated and deleted around 40000 spam posts, so I doubt real people is a large portion of this (btw - 37000 bots is taken from looking for those who did not complete the security code, which should prevent one from registering when not completed, 40000 posts is the number in the admincp statistics).

[aawhc]

So what would you suggest Homicidal Cherry?
we can't exactly pick and choose what kind of Christians will join.

[Evales]

I would go onto those other Christian forums and ask them if they wanted to join us. If that is okay with guys? Dw so much about the preachers and stuff, they fade away eventually, nobody responds to them or the alternative, everyone points out the flaws including theists like cnorman. So this place will be a little messy for a month if we get a few new good debaters would it be worth it?

[C-Nub]

Well, I have reservations about allowing Australians to participate in anything, but if you wanted to go recruiting, I doubt we could stop you. Just make sure they don't think we're all from your backwater summer-is-winter-here continent. That's just too embarrassing to consider.