Has anyone else heard stuff like this?

[1angelette]

So, the other day my mom and my dad and I are driving along in the car. Dad has just gone to a museum and is criticizing the museum for saying that the FBI did not start the fire at Waco. I had not heard of this fire and asked what it was. Mom and Dad told the story and, near the end, we started to discuss the insanity of David Koresh.

Then Dad said this: "He thought he could communicate directly with God." Mom laughed.

Immediately I was struck by the blatant hypocrisy of this statement. "You laugh at him communicating with God, and yet you people pray."

Mom: "But not to a God who surrounds himself with children so he won't die!"

I remained silent on the issue after this, although I thought to myself "but that wasn't the God he communicated to! He thought he could communicate with God, just like you people think you can pray to God!"

It drives me crazy.

So, to the point: Does anybody else hear these kinds of statements from believers that they know that just make them want to pull their hair out?

(Move this to Members Only Chat or something if you think it doesn't belong here, but I thought this forum was appropriate because it's kind of addressed to atheists.

[Goat]

So, the other day my mom and my dad and I are driving along in the car. Dad has just gone to a museum and is criticizing the museum for saying that the FBI did not start the fire at Waco. I had not heard of this fire and asked what it was. Mom and Dad told the story and, near the end, we started to discuss the insanity of David Koresh.

Then Dad said this: "He thought he could communicate directly with God." Mom laughed.

Immediately I was struck by the blatant hypocrisy of this statement. "You laugh at him communicating with God, and yet you people pray."

Mom: "But not to a God who surrounds himself with children so he won't die!"

I remained silent on the issue after this, although I thought to myself "but that wasn't the God he communicated to! He thought he could communicate with God, just like you people think you can pray to God!"

It drives me crazy.

So, to the point: Does anybody else hear these kinds of statements from believers that they know that just make them want to pull their hair out?

(Move this to Members Only Chat or something if you think it doesn't belong here, but I thought this forum was appropriate because it's kind of addressed to atheists.

Oh yes. It is known as a 'cognitive disconnect' to some degree. However, the insanity of David Koresh, or perhaps the way he manipulated his followers for personal gain is several orders of magnitude.

I think is , to some degree, the difference between talking to God, and then having God talk back.

[Zzyzx]

.

Immediately I was struck by the blatant hypocrisy of this statement. "You laugh at him communicating with God, and yet you people pray."

It seems very common for those who worship gods to denigrate those who worship different gods or even those who worship the same god in different ways.

That is part of the divisiveness that characterizes much of religious dogma, "we are better because we are 'chosen' and 'saved'" or "our god is better than your god" or, even worse, "your god is a false god" / "your religion is false".

Why might religious sects promote divisiveness? In business the practice is known as "product differentiation" – making one of a series of interchangeable products appear as though it is superior, typically by using propaganda, advertising or public relations. "Our soap is better than their soap because we have a better jingle". In religion product differentiation bolsters the sect's recruitment and retention by loudly proclaiming "we are saved and everyone else is going to hell".

It is not uncommon in these threads for a "Christian" to denounce other "Christians" for being "Not Real Christians" or being "Christian in name only" (meaning disapproval of the worship practices of others). When asked how a "real Christian" can be identified with certainty the answers are incoherent. However, the real venom is usually saved for the "Atheists" – all who refuse to worship the popular or favored "gods".

Angelette, you are probably wise to avoid discussing the matter with your parents. Many are of the impression that parenthood imparts great knowledge and wisdom. And, many parents also are of the opinion that offspring are required to be submissive to their elders. As a person who had offspring (fifty years ago), who have had offspring (thirty years ago), who have probably had offspring, I can attest that reproduction is probably just as likely to produce insanity as it is to produce wisdom.

The mindset attributed to family position is very difficult for most people to set aside. Therefore, it is probably advisable to establish meaningful relationships with non-family individuals rather than to attempt to change existing family patterns (i.e., nod, smile and humor the old folks when at home and speak your mind to others who will show respect for you as a thinking individual).

[catalyst]

So, the other day my mom and my dad and I are driving along in the car. Dad has just gone to a museum and is criticizing the museum for saying that the FBI did not start the fire at Waco. I had not heard of this fire and asked what it was. Mom and Dad told the story and, near the end, we started to discuss the insanity of David Koresh.

Then Dad said this: "He thought he could communicate directly with God." Mom laughed.

Immediately I was struck by the blatant hypocrisy of this statement. "You laugh at him communicating with God, and yet you people pray."

Mom: "But not to a God who surrounds himself with children so he won't die!"

I remained silent on the issue after this, although I thought to myself "but that wasn't the God he communicated to! He thought he could communicate with God, just like you people think you can pray to God!"

It drives me crazy.

So, to the point: Does anybody else hear these kinds of statements from believers that they know that just make them want to pull their hair out?

(Move this to Members Only Chat or something if you think it doesn't belong here, but I thought this forum was appropriate because it's kind of addressed to atheists.

Hello 1angelette, nice to meet you!

This particular bit DID strike a cord with me:

Immediately I was struck by the blatant hypocrisy of this statement. "You laugh at him communicating with God, and yet you people pray."

Mom: "But not to a God who surrounds himself with children so he won't die!"

I wonder just which god your mum claims to be communicating with in her prayer, because bible god does exactly that; surrounds himself with "children" (your mum being one of them), so "he" won't die. If one day, people just stopped having faith in the bible god, it would eventually die as well and just be relegated as just another mythology.


Koresh was just following the example as set out IN the bible, which he had memorised by the age of 12 (particularly the NT). He claimed himself to be of Davidian descent and as such, considered himself the FINAL prophet. To the "children" he surrounded himself with,he WAS "the messiah", pretty much (assuming your mum is christian), your mum sees bible jesus as being.

So, to the point: Does anybody else hear these kinds of statements from believers that they know that just make them want to pull their hair out?

Oh geez 1angelette, I used to be guilty of making that kind of statement! Unfortunately, "faith" tends to do that from my experience. It is so much easier in faith to finger-point and laugh (or scoff) at others lunacy, rather than addressing ones own.