Leaving the forum - Thanks for the ride

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fewwillfindit
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Leaving the forum - Thanks for the ride

Post #1

Post by fewwillfindit »

I have decided to permanently leave this forum, and I am posting this here so that anyone with whom I am presently debating will know why I am no longer replying. I can no longer deal with all of the negativity and the haters of God, His kids and His Word. It is seriously dragging me into the gutter and it is killing my spirit. It is the prolific God-haters like I AM ALL I AM, notachance, Zzyzx, etc., whom I just don't want forced into my life anymore, and their presence is inescapable on this forum. They and others like them are not interested in anything but spewing their venomous bile against Christianity. They have not taken the time to study and learn that which they argue against, and repeatedly demonstrate this ignorance of the Bible, Christian theology and history in their "debates." When confronted, rather than attempting to learn, they presume to rail even harder in their ignorance and refuse to even try to understand. Such "debaters" take center stage on this forum and are by far the most prolific and vociferous posters.

With nearly every new thread, there is a daily barrage of hatred leveled against Christianity, calling the holiness or our God and His precious Word into question. I think that this forum would be more adequately named "Hating Christianity and Religion" rather than Debating Christianity and Religion. Thank you Otseng for your valiant attempt to promote Christian Apologetics. Truly, I thank you. I know you meant well when you created it, but in my estimation it has become overrun with hatred, and it is doing far more harm to Christianity than good.

I do, however, appreciate thoughtful non-Theist debaters like McCulloch and many more, so this is not a diatribe against the entire group.

I do wish that I could stick around long enough to see Zzyzx actually debate instead of merely finding a myriad of creative ways to say "prove it," but I fear I would be waiting a long time for that. A five-year old could be successful using those "debate" tactics. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.

Anyhow, good-bye. To my Christian brothers and sisters, keep up the good work.

I will not be answering any more replies.

God bless you.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

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Hobbes
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Post #2

Post by Hobbes »

It is sad to see this happen. I too have noticed a recent sudden "insurgence" if you will of axe-grinding "non-theists" ... these things ebb and flow.

I've seen several "debate" threads cranked up lately... replete with spelling and grammatical errors... it's as if the folks are so excited to get their hate speech out they can't be bothered to check to make sure the post makes sense or is worded correctly. They just blast a few hateful words out on their keyboard, click "submit" and ring their hands together with glee--eagerly anticipating the strife and argument that will inevitably ensue--that is, if they play their cards right and steer the "debate" in that direction.

What makes it tough is when the ebb/flow goes in the direction of the above, when you are at a weak time in your life or short on time or whatever because then it causes a lot of extra strain.

And then things like this happen. Fewwillfindit is a very eloquent, friendly, intellectual Christian and this website will suffer a severe degradation of quality debate without his presence here.

I'm just glad I got here before he was run off, because now I've found a new permanent friend I can keep in touch with. Thank God for that.

Love ya, Few. You will be sorely, sorely missed.
Last edited by Hobbes on Tue May 24, 2011 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
All you deviants out there... remember weinergate. It eventually comes back around. You will be outed.

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Post #3

Post by Darias »

I'm sorry to see you go. I've enjoyed debating with you.


God bless,

- Darias

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Post #4

Post by ST_JB »

I hate to see someone from our fold leaving this forum. :(

What can we do to change your mind or what will it takes to take back what you've said?

Considering the odds, I think this forum needs you more than ever.
"We must take the best and most indisputable of human doctrines, and embark on that, as if it were a raft, and risk the voyage of life, unless it were possible to find a stronger vessel, some divine word on which we might journey more surely and securely." -- SOCRATES

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EduChris
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Re: Leaving the forum - Thanks for the ride

Post #5

Post by EduChris »

fewwillfindit wrote:...the prolific God-haters like I AM ALL I AM, notachance, Zzyzx, etc...their presence is inescapable on this forum. They and others like them are not interested in anything but spewing their venomous bile against Christianity. They have not taken the time to study and learn that which they argue against, and repeatedly demonstrate this ignorance of the Bible, Christian theology and history in their "debates." When confronted, rather than attempting to learn, they presume to rail even harder in their ignorance and refuse to even try to understand. Such "debaters" take center stage on this forum and are by far the most prolific and vociferous posters...I do wish that I could stick around long enough to see Zzyzx actually debate instead of merely finding a myriad of creative ways to say "prove it," but I fear I would be waiting a long time for that. A five-year old could be successful using those "debate" tactics. Sorry, but I'm not impressed...
I can't disagree with your assessment of the situation. I wish there was some way to enforce civility requirements evenly across the board here. As it appears there is little chance of that happening, the "Ignores the Uncivil" group is the next best option, for me at least.

psalm8

Re: Leaving the forum - Thanks for the ride

Post #6

Post by psalm8 »

fewwillfindit wrote:

I do wish that I could stick around long enough to see Zzyzx actually debate instead of merely finding a myriad of creative ways to say "prove it," but I fear I would be waiting a long time for that. A five-year old could be successful using those "debate" tactics. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.


So I have been learning. He loves to hijack threads, And most disagreements with him result in him charging that you dont know how to debate. I have looked at several of his "clashes" and he contradicts himself very consistently from thread to thread and charge to charge. Unless he is responding to an OP issue I have started to ignore him. He seems to love to fan the flames. He admitted he likes to sabotage, which is a very dishonest tactic...but I have noted he gets away with it. And a ZZ fan club user group?? Gimme a break.

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johnmarc
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Post #7

Post by johnmarc »

Well, Few, it's been a great ride. I came onto the forum to kick some Fundamentalist butt and thanks to you and Hobbes, I seem to be 'engaging' the atheists instead. It's an issue of religion and fairness.

(1) I don't believe that religion or Fundamentalism is the root cause of 'what ails us' Religion or no, there will always be people who push back against the tide of modernity. I share many of your concerns. I do not believe that our country is 'heading in the right direction'. I don't want to be burning folk at the stake and neither do you. But I do want a fundamental change in direction of our country which has softened to the point that we are not moral or competitive any longer. And so that I don't find this as an OP somewhere, let me explain. I consider work ethic and respect a moral issue. Anyone out 'there' who thinks that today's kids are leaving school with work ethic, integrity, and thinking skills needs to get into the schools and look around a bit. Our secular world is out of control---maybe religion can help, maybe not.

(2) The folks who debate from behind a wall of 'no-position' only to throw rocks at those who hold a position need to be partitioned off and ignored. It is an effective position, but is it an honorable position? This is not a science forum, it is a religious forum. The atheist hides behind the non-theist label for one specific purpose, unassailability. Their goal seems to be 'define and conquer'. I guess that makes sense to someone, but not to me and not to Fewwillfindit.

Hey, remember when you and I were pretty livid with each other and I hid down in the 'TEST' thread just to find out if you were reporting all of my posts? You found me down there and I had to ask you directly? That was pretty embarrassing.

Best of luck to you 'Big Guy' and give the Missus a hug for me. If you ever get to Washington State, dinner is on us.

God Bless.
Why posit intention when ignorance will suffice?

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Post #8

Post by theopoesis »

Fewwillfindit, I am sorry to see you go.

But I am also sorry to see you go like this.

I've been struggling a lot lately. I've been proud and prone to anger, lacking patience, forgiveness, love, and mercy. And it is because of this forum in many ways, but it's also because of my own nature, decisions, and emotional state. Yet here I am, a hypocrite, who just typed a sermon in the debate chatroom in your defense, and who is about to type a sermon in this thread in judgment of you. Pride upon prides! But brothers and sisters in Christ, we need a sermon.

What is the gospel? So many of us seem to follow a gospel-as-argument. I do it to. But we assume that the gospel is a set of propositions which, if accepted, lead to salvation. To be sure, we have scripture to support it. "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." And so we reduce the gospel to a statement, a confession of Jesus as Lord. We offer an alter call, use manipulative songs and sermonic themes, and strive to draw the masses up front to repeat the Jesus prayer after us. The end seems to justify the means, and the gospel is a message of information.

So apply this mentality to a forum. All that matters is that we find a way to cause someone to accept our message. If they repeat after us, we save their soul. So we pay little attention to anything but the content of our arguments, and we do whatever it takes to win.

But I submit to you that the correct view of the gospel is the gospel-as-person. The good news is Jesus Christ himself. The good news is the personal relationship with the Triune God, and eternal life is nothing but the eternal extension of that relationship. Our goal should not be to convince others of a point, but to introduce them to a personal God. Our strategy should reflect our goal, and so our posts and actions should be those actions which conform to what one would expect when we have a personal relationship with God.

Why do they hate God? Because they have reason to hate us, and to use a terrible cliche, "we are the only Jesus they may ever know."

Why do they hate us? (And I know I am speaking hyperbolically here). Look at our language in this thread: We equate them with five-year-olds. We equate them with hatred and accuse them of hatred. We mock their spelling ability, call them ax-grinders, we treat them uncivilly even as we are treated uncivilly. We publicly accuse and label those who we feel have wronged us.

Why would we publicly accuse? Do we not remember that it is Satan who accuses and Christ who advocates on our defense?

Who will advocate for the non-theists among the Holy Huddle? No one, and so they have to start their own thread, and the result is a divisive tension and anger. Why do in the night what can be done in broad daylight?

Maybe I'm crazy, but I'll advocate for the non-theists.

Have you ever thought that maybe Zzyzx has a reason to hate, if indeed he hates at all? Our faith is what is sacred to us. We take offense when it is challenged in an impolite, sarcastic, or demeaning way. And yet someone challenged Zzyzx's wife! What is more sacred to a man than his wife? The pm has been deleted, but I suspect quite strongly that the challenge was made by a christian. How can we grow frustrated at his tactics when those are our own?

In another thread, Woland asks why Christians can't understand that there are non-theists who have honestly assessed the information and cannot find a reason to believe. I think that's a good question. We assume the non-theists are here to mock, insult, provoke, or ridicule. Who's to say they aren't here in the pursuit of truth, just as we are. Can't we see how their requests for evidence are a valid reason for unbelief?

There's one translation (perhaps not the best) of Hebrews 11 which reads, "faith is the evidence of things unseen." So we get bombarded with posts asking us to provide evidence. We cannot prove the gospel, but not primarily for lack of evidence - primarily because the gospel is a person. Proving the gospel is like proving my sister Jessica. What does that even mean? So we can't empirically demonstrate the Trinity. We can demonstrate the Trinity through our faith, which draws us in closer communion with the Trinity and with one another. Our response to "persecution" should be to turn the other cheek, not to condemn and criticize. Not to call for new moderators (and I certainly am guilty of this). When we have the faith to live a life of love, we offer the evidence of our convictions.

Another thing I am guitly of: not being in communion with the Triune God and His Church. To commune with God is to be a part of the body. Yet I am here as if I am alone in my quest. I talk to other Christians, and sometimes back them up, but all too often I turn the other way when someone is incendiary or condemning of non-theists. Far more often, I am condemning towards them myself. Why do I not speak bodly in love? Why not say, "EduChris, you're brilliant, but sometimes you're just too incendiary. It drives others away from Christ." And why doesn't he say, "Theopoesis, you are terrible towards Shermana. You sin gravely." Or "Theopoesis, you are letting Goat get to you. So he sees things differently. Is that a cause to act as if you hate him? You are not speaking in love, and you are showing pride, arrogance, and anger."

After some time here, I am too steeped in sin to function here as a representative of Christ. Why? Partly because I have been alone. I never once prayed for fewwillfindit, even when he voiced frustrations. I rarely spoke to encourage him, support him, and rarely backed him up in a debate. And I've been rarely encouraged (though more than I encourage), backed up, and (I suspect) rarely prayed for. I act as if I am alone.

I'm rambling. I had more clarity in my post towards the non-theists. I have little clarity here. All I know is I am not what I should be. And it seems we aren't what we should be. Blanket condemnations are easy, but removing the plank from my eye is not. How can I proceed if I go alone?

Fewwillfindit, you may have left here feeling persecuted and alone, but I pray you find somewhere to be part of a body.

Otseng, thanks for the "Brother's Keeper" group. I should have joined it.

Brothers and sisters, are we presenting others Christ in our very bodies, or are we presenting "vain and deceitful philosophy which depends on the traditions of men", all the while sinning against the non-theists here by condemning them from the safety of the Holy Huddle?

I'm not the one to preach this sermon... somebody take over or put me on probation or something.

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Post #9

Post by Slopeshoulder »

I just saw this thread and had no idea fewillfindit felt this way and is leaving. On a personal level, that is both too bad and understandable; no one should feel that pain and have their soul beaten down, or have what is sacred to them so disrespected. I'll have more to say about that in the other thread.

FWIW, I think he is a very very honorable guy, deeply immersed in what he finds sacred, beautiful and godly, a real student, really smart, and I was extremely impressed with his thread with johnmarc. While fewwillfindit represents a version of christianity i cannot understand, find deeply problematic, and am amazed still exists, I think he is one of its really respectable advocates.

I wholeheartedly endorse his decision to put his well-being, soul, and values ahead of his participation here. Believe it or not, I often feel the same way, for different reasons, and promise to leave every week. My life is going through some major changes, so this is actually likely to happen soon.
But the forum would be better off with fewwillfindit here, and I wish he and we could have found a way to settle down and discuss what we find sacred and why, with less attacking in every direction between few/fundamentalists, moderates, progressives, and non-theists.

And theo, thanks for your wise words.

WinePusher

Post #10

Post by WinePusher »

Well, if this forum is having a negative influence on your life perhaps it is best you take a break from it. When reading posts composed by vitriolic, outspoken people who are so adamently opposed to Christianity, I can definitely understand why that would take a toll on your spirits. My method of dealing with this is, responding. My voice on here is equal to that of the users you mention in your topic, and if an individual begins spewing polemic and vitriolic speech, I'm damn well going to challenge him and give him a taste of his own medicine.

Other than this, I have also been accustomed to laughing at the outrageous and pathetic things some people put up on here. It doesn't affect me personally and it shouldn't affect anyone personally. People whom I don't care about and have no concern for aren't granted the ability to hurt my feelings or infuriate me, and if they do then that is something I myself need to work on. I am an avid reader of TheDailyKos and after becoming a frequent visiter to the site during the 2008 elections, it still amazes me how abundant and numerous the amount of total morons there are over there. Anybody with an eighth grade diploma and the ability to form basic sentences gets to be writer over there. The point is, I read their dissenting opinions through the lens of humor. The baseless opinions and positions they peddle over there could never infuriate me or piss me off, they just make me laugh. This is how you should approach posters on here. In the face of ridiculous and outlandish statements made by the non-theist/atheist contigent on here, or the way they support eachother and give each high fives and pats on the back, just laugh at it.

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