Homosexual Pastors

[ByFaithAlone]

My church is deciding on staying with the PCUSA or breaking off as a result of the decision made by our presbytery to allow homosexual pastors to be ordained. We will be having a church informational meeting on Thursday night and tensions will get pretty high.

Regardless of where you stand please pray for my church.

In addition, I would like to pose the question, where do you stand and of course why?

As I know this is a very hot topic, I would request that we remain as civil as possible.

[bjs]

God be with you.

I could not remain in a group that said that homosexual actions are morally acceptable – ordaining someone who unrepentantly takes part in homosexual actions is saying just that.

However, division in the church is a serious thing. Is there any other recourse? Is there a way to change or appeal decision of your presbytery? In the end you must do what you must do, but don’t rejoice over dividing the church. It is the last recourse when there is no other way to protect the holiness of the church, but try every other avenue first.

Again, God be with you.

[EduChris]

...where do you stand and of course why? ...

The real question is, "What does the Bible say about this, and how are we to apply what it says to our context?"

At one point in my life I was convinced that the Bible prohibited women from becoming pastors. After some years of studying the issue, and with the benefit (?!?) of increased maturity, I came to change my view. As a result of that experience, I now try to hold loosely to whatever interpretation I may happen to have (on any topic) because I know there is always the chance that I may be wrong, and that I may have to revise (or re-revise) my thinking at any point.

As far as the specific matter of homosexuality, currently I agree with William J. Webb's view, which he outlines in his book, Slaves, Women & Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis. It's well worth the read, and it applies to more than just the specific matter of homosexual pastors.

[Slopeshoulder]

I wouldn't think twice about it; some of the best pastors I know and have known are gay - all sexually active, some married, some lesbian, most committed or wishing to be. I think there's something gone very wrong if we even have to wonder, and unchristian if we discriminate. I have never EVER came across a gay-is-sin, gay-is-a-lifestyle argument that had any more value than used toilet paper. It's no better than those christians who used to justify racial discrimination. THAT's the sin folks.

[Braveheart]

I wouldn't think twice about it; some of the best pastors I know and have known are gay - all sexually active, some married, some lesbian, most committed or wishing to be. I think there's something gone very wrong if we even have to wonder, and unchristian if we discriminate. I have never EVER came across a gay-is-sin, gay-is-a-lifestyle argument that had any more value than used toilet paper. It's no better than those christians who used to justify racial discrimination. THAT's the sin folks.

The Christian thing to do would be to politely explain to them that the bible says we should cut their heads off but we're peaceable Christians so we are just going to ask them to leave, and that NO, they cannot be pastors to 'till they fix their sinful lifestyles. That is what Jesus Christ would want us to do. Jesus didn't say: "love the sinner, tolerate the sin." He said "love the sinner, hate the sin." So, that's exactly what I do.

[Slopeshoulder]

I wouldn't think twice about it; some of the best pastors I know and have known are gay - all sexually active, some married, some lesbian, most committed or wishing to be. I think there's something gone very wrong if we even have to wonder, and unchristian if we discriminate. I have never EVER came across a gay-is-sin, gay-is-a-lifestyle argument that had any more value than used toilet paper. It's no better than those christians who used to justify racial discrimination. THAT's the sin folks.

The Christian thing to do would be to politely explain to them that the bible says we should cut their heads off but we're peaceable Christians so we are just going to ask them to leave, and that NO, they cannot be pastors to 'till they fix their sinful lifestyles. That is what Jesus Christ would want us to do. Jesus didn't say: "love the sinner, tolerate the sin." He said "love the sinner, hate the sin." So, that's exactly what I do.

Except that, as pastors, they have M.Div. degrees and have studied more about the bible, jesus, ethics, and theology than you have or most people have. And in this process they have decided that your POV is the wrong POV. So they will hear your POV as the hateful misinformed bigoted shallow fearful ranting that it is. And thank God or that.

[Braveheart]

I wouldn't think twice about it; some of the best pastors I know and have known are gay - all sexually active, some married, some lesbian, most committed or wishing to be. I think there's something gone very wrong if we even have to wonder, and unchristian if we discriminate. I have never EVER came across a gay-is-sin, gay-is-a-lifestyle argument that had any more value than used toilet paper. It's no better than those christians who used to justify racial discrimination. THAT's the sin folks.

The Christian thing to do would be to politely explain to them that the bible says we should cut their heads off but we're peaceable Christians so we are just going to ask them to leave, and that NO, they cannot be pastors to 'till they fix their sinful lifestyles. That is what Jesus Christ would want us to do. Jesus didn't say: "love the sinner, tolerate the sin." He said "love the sinner, hate the sin." So, that's exactly what I do.

Except that, as pastors, they have M.Div. degrees and have studied more about the bible, jesus, ethics, and theology than you have or most people have. And in this process they have decided that your POV is the wrong POV. So they will hear your POV as the hateful misinformed bigoted shallow fearful ranting that it is. And thank God or that.

For someone who knows the bible so well as Gay pastors, they sure as hell like to ignore Leviticus 20:13, don't they? You can't say that just because they know the bible so well there good guys. Satan could probably hand us all our asses in any discussion on the bible, but that doesn't put him on God's good side. Same with Gays.

[bjs]

My church is deciding on staying with the PCUSA or breaking off as a result of the decision made by our presbytery to allow homosexual pastors to be ordained. We will be having a church informational meeting on Thursday night and tensions will get pretty high.

Regardless of where you stand please pray for my church.

In addition, I would like to pose the question, where do you stand and of course why?

As I know this is a very hot topic, I would request that we remain as civil as possible.

Thursday has come and gone. How goes it?

[Slopeshoulder]

I wouldn't think twice about it; some of the best pastors I know and have known are gay - all sexually active, some married, some lesbian, most committed or wishing to be. I think there's something gone very wrong if we even have to wonder, and unchristian if we discriminate. I have never EVER came across a gay-is-sin, gay-is-a-lifestyle argument that had any more value than used toilet paper. It's no better than those christians who used to justify racial discrimination. THAT's the sin folks.

The Christian thing to do would be to politely explain to them that the bible says we should cut their heads off but we're peaceable Christians so we are just going to ask them to leave, and that NO, they cannot be pastors to 'till they fix their sinful lifestyles. That is what Jesus Christ would want us to do. Jesus didn't say: "love the sinner, tolerate the sin." He said "love the sinner, hate the sin." So, that's exactly what I do.

Except that, as pastors, they have M.Div. degrees and have studied more about the bible, jesus, ethics, and theology than you have or most people have. And in this process they have decided that your POV is the wrong POV. So they will hear your POV as the hateful misinformed bigoted shallow fearful ranting that it is. And thank God or that.

For someone who knows the bible so well as Gay pastors, they sure as hell like to ignore Leviticus 20:13, don't they? You can't say that just because they know the bible so well there good guys. Satan could probably hand us all our asses in any discussion on the bible, but that doesn't put him on God's good side. Same with Gays.

Try to understand:
THEY DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY. is that news to you?
THEY APPLY HIGHER CRITICISM. is that news to you?
THEY DON'T TAKE VERSES IN ISOLATION. is that news to you?
THEY DON'T LEVITICUS SERIOUSLY (I mean, who actually does? you?)
AND MOST THINK SATAN DOESN'T EXIST. is that news to you?
Got that?
To them and to me, you're just an obnoxious little fundy gay hater and we/they don't take you seriously either.

BTW, by "there" did you mean "they're"?

Re: good guys, that's irrelevent. They are theologically sound, very informed, usually smart, devout, prayerful and faithful. They are also VERY capable of ignoring you and your pet interpretations of your pet isolated verses. And yes, the one's I know are good guys.

We're done now. I cannot waste more time with you in such an otherwise beautiful world of possibilities.

[Braveheart]

I wouldn't think twice about it; some of the best pastors I know and have known are gay - all sexually active, some married, some lesbian, most committed or wishing to be. I think there's something gone very wrong if we even have to wonder, and unchristian if we discriminate. I have never EVER came across a gay-is-sin, gay-is-a-lifestyle argument that had any more value than used toilet paper. It's no better than those christians who used to justify racial discrimination. THAT's the sin folks.

The Christian thing to do would be to politely explain to them that the bible says we should cut their heads off but we're peaceable Christians so we are just going to ask them to leave, and that NO, they cannot be pastors to 'till they fix their sinful lifestyles. That is what Jesus Christ would want us to do. Jesus didn't say: "love the sinner, tolerate the sin." He said "love the sinner, hate the sin." So, that's exactly what I do.

Except that, as pastors, they have M.Div. degrees and have studied more about the bible, jesus, ethics, and theology than you have or most people have. And in this process they have decided that your POV is the wrong POV. So they will hear your POV as the hateful misinformed bigoted shallow fearful ranting that it is. And thank God or that.

For someone who knows the bible so well as Gay pastors, they sure as hell like to ignore Leviticus 20:13, don't they? You can't say that just because they know the bible so well there good guys. Satan could probably hand us all our asses in any discussion on the bible, but that doesn't put him on God's good side. Same with Gays.

Try to understand:
THEY DON'T TAKE IT LITERALLY. is that news to you?
THEY APPLY HIGHER CRITICISM. is that news to you?
THEY DON'T TAKE VERSES IN ISOLATION. is that news to you?
THEY DON'T LEVITICUS SERIOUSLY (I mean, who actually does? you?)
AND MOST THINK SATAN DOESN'T EXIST. is that news to you?
Got that?
To them and to me, you're just an obnoxious little fundy gay hater and we/they don't take you seriously either.

BTW, by "there" did you mean "they're"?

Re: good guys, that's irrelevent. They are theologically sound, very informed, usually smart, devout, prayerful and faithful. They are also VERY capable of ignoring you and your pet interpretations of your pet isolated verses. And yes, the one's I know are good guys.

We're done now. I cannot waste more time with you in such an otherwise beautiful world of possibilities.

One last thing. You're idea of Christianity is messed up. You call what you just described Christians? More like a bunch of damn heretics. You ignore God's law, well, that's not Christian. A Christian believes in Satan and takes Leviticus literally. I don't think you really are a Christian.

[bjs]

Slopeshoulder and Braveheart, if I might interject, the opening post explicitly stated “I would request that we remain as civil as possible.�

If the person you are debating is your brother, why would you speak to him so harshly? If he is your enemy then you are under direct orders from your Lord to show him love and kindness. In a forum with the word “holy� in the title, such harshness is out of place.

Forgive me if I am out of place for saying so.