2 Timothy 2:14

[Euphrates]

It's not always easy to find people who are willing to engage in conversations about spiritual matters. We're called to be witnesses, and I'm constantly looking for an opportunity to share the Gospel. I thought this forum would be a good place to clear up misconceptions about Christianity, defend Christian theology, and call people to embrace the Good News. I thought this forum would be full of people who had some specific concern or objection to Christianity, and those people were just waiting for someone to explain away their concerns.

I was idealistic.

I was wrong.

2 Timothy 2:14 says:
Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

This forum is full of people who just want to argue. I have found that they are, for the most part, unwilling to consider that they're wrong. Things always become quarrelsome. Everyone thinks they're right. The result is weird interpretations of Scripture so that it aligns with an individual's beliefs, unwillingness to admit mistakes, personal attacks, and very poor argumentation. We've all seen it.

I am convinced that most of the people on here aren't seeking Christ with an open mind. That's become abundantly clear after too many question begging threads, hostile attitudes, and appeals to "agree to disagree" after logic revealed the emptiness of their position. It was my mistake to think this forum would have open-minded people looking for Jesus. Turns out, most non-Christians join this site because they want to debate against Christianity.

The Bible says a lot about false teachers. From what I can tell, they outnumber us on this forum.

2 Peter 2:1 says:
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Have you noticed people constantly misrepresenting your argument, battling the straw men they have created, and not seeming to even be aware of their error? It's like they're not even listening and completely don't understand what they read in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 1:18 says (see also 1 John 5:6):
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

It hit me especially hard today because there's a thread arguing that Christ-followers should not eat food with blood in it. But 1 Timothy 4:1-5 clearly states that this is a false teaching that comes from demons:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

2 John 1 tells us exactly what we should do when we encounter false teachers.

2 John 1:9-11 says:
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Paul tells Timothy to avoid discussion based on false knowledge (1 Timothy 6:20). He told Titus the same thing.

Titus 3:9 says:
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

We are called to be witnesses testifying to the truth of the Gospel and the love, forgiveness, grace, and mercy of God. But I propose that this website is not for us. This forum is where people go to fight about Christianity, focusing on the controversies and dissensions.

Again, 2 Timothy 2:14 says:
Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

In light of what the Bible says, and in conjunction with my experiences in this forum, I can no longer participate. This is my last post.

I hope others leave, too.

[Chabalala]

Yea from what I can tell, vast majority of unbelievers in this forums(and Internet in general) doesn't look like they will change their mind no matter what.

Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.


Most unbelievers here know very well what Christianity is about and have willfully knowingly rejected it.
Shame and folly to them, not us.


Hence why I don't post much or participate in debates.
I do read some threads from time to time, because some of the questions they raise are valid questions that Christians should be able to answer when asked in real life.

[otseng]

Turns out, most non-Christians join this site because they want to debate against Christianity.

This should not be too surprising.

I hope others leave, too.

If one comes with the expectation of simply throwing out Bible verses and for people to then confess the error of their ways, this site is not the place to do it. What this place is for is to be able to debate the veracity of Christian claims through reasoning and evidence in a civil environment.

[Slopeshoulder]

Another preacher who can't stand the heat of honest scrutiny.
Another person who blames others for thinking they are right but has confused their own opinions with divine truth.
Another person who thinks a debate forum is a place to prostyletize.
Another person who couldn't raise thier game above decontextualized alleged "proof" texts and recitations of dogma.
Another one defeated and gone.
Another incapable apologist for christ exposed.
Win.

[otseng]

Another preacher who can't stand the heat of honest scrutiny.
Another person who blames others for thinking they are right but has confused their own opinions with divine truth.
Another person who thinks a debate forum is a place to prostyletize.
Another person who couldn't raise thier game above decontextualized alleged "proof" texts and recitations of dogma.
Another one defeated and gone.
Another incapable apologist for christ exposed.
Win.

Moderator Comment

Even if a member leaves the forum, he should still not be personally commented on.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster.

[EduChris]

...This forum is full of people who just want to argue...they are, for the most part, unwilling to consider that they're wrong...The result is...personal attacks, and very poor argumentation. We've all seen it...too many question begging threads, hostile attitudes...I can no longer participate...

I have long said that we lose good people here all too often--precisely because the rules are not enforced evenly. Certain groups and/or individuals seem to get away (repeatedly) with anything and everything.

If one joins the site after having read the rules, expecting that these rules will be enforced across the board, then one will be quickly disappointed. Still, this forum is marginally better than others I've seen, and one can get along fairly well here if one exercises a bit of discretion regarding who one decides to debate with.

[Merciful_Grace]

I agree that God doesnt want us Christians arguing with anyone over our beliefs. But to spread the gospel to those who have the ears to hear, those searching for the truth. I am here because as a truck driver, I don't have alot of interaction with other Christians. I have so many questions and so much love for Christ that im bursting at the seams.
I do hate to read that you wont be back, as it is Christians like yourself that I wish to fellowship with.

[puddleglum]

You can't judge the effectiveness of a post by those who respond to it. There are people who read your post but don't respond and it is always possible that something you say will help bring them closer to God.

It is useless to get drawn into extensive arguments with unbelievers but any arguments they present against Christianity should be refuted to prevent others from being persuaded by them. Once you have done this it is generally best to simply drop the subject and let them have the last word. (I have to confess that I sometimes find it hard to follow my own advice. I want to respond to any attack on what I say and I often stay involved in discussions longer that I should.)

[aglassdarkly]

It's not always easy to find people who are willing to engage in conversations about spiritual matters. We're called to be witnesses, and I'm constantly looking for an opportunity to share the Gospel. I thought this forum would be a good place to clear up misconceptions about Christianity, defend Christian theology, and call people to embrace the Good News. I thought this forum would be full of people who had some specific concern or objection to Christianity, and those people were just waiting for someone to explain away their concerns.

I was idealistic.

I was wrong.

2 Timothy 2:14 says:
Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

This forum is full of people who just want to argue. I have found that they are, for the most part, unwilling to consider that they're wrong. Things always become quarrelsome. Everyone thinks they're right. The result is weird interpretations of Scripture so that it aligns with an individual's beliefs, unwillingness to admit mistakes, personal attacks, and very poor argumentation. We've all seen it.

I am convinced that most of the people on here aren't seeking Christ with an open mind. That's become abundantly clear after too many question begging threads, hostile attitudes, and appeals to "agree to disagree" after logic revealed the emptiness of their position. It was my mistake to think this forum would have open-minded people looking for Jesus. Turns out, most non-Christians join this site because they want to debate against Christianity.

The Bible says a lot about false teachers. From what I can tell, they outnumber us on this forum.

2 Peter 2:1 says:
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

Have you noticed people constantly misrepresenting your argument, battling the straw men they have created, and not seeming to even be aware of their error? It's like they're not even listening and completely don't understand what they read in the Bible.

1 Corinthians 1:18 says (see also 1 John 5:6):
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

It hit me especially hard today because there's a thread arguing that Christ-followers should not eat food with blood in it. But 1 Timothy 4:1-5 clearly states that this is a false teaching that comes from demons:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

2 John 1 tells us exactly what we should do when we encounter false teachers.

2 John 1:9-11 says:
Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.

Paul tells Timothy to avoid discussion based on false knowledge (1 Timothy 6:20). He told Titus the same thing.

Titus 3:9 says:
But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

We are called to be witnesses testifying to the truth of the Gospel and the love, forgiveness, grace, and mercy of God. But I propose that this website is not for us. This forum is where people go to fight about Christianity, focusing on the controversies and dissensions.

Again, 2 Timothy 2:14 says:
Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

In light of what the Bible says, and in conjunction with my experiences in this forum, I can no longer participate. This is my last post.

I hope others leave, too.

Excellent points. While I haven't been involved in any theological/denominational debates here, I have found the sheer lack of logic to be staggering. I don't think people should agree with me "just cuz," but when argumentation has been replaced by finger-pointing, repeated accusation, unsupported claims, and a general sense of disregard, I know the people on here aren't genuinely looking for truth. They just want to argue. And because they can hide behind the format, their avatars, and the unbalanced policing within the community, they don't behave like people normally would. So I think you're right, this isn't the place for Christians to witness. This isn't the place to make apologetic arguments. This forum isn't meant for us. People's hearts aren't impacted here.

[Josh Coe]

[Replying to post 1 by Euphrates]

I find it sad that you and others are leaving/have left the site because you don't perceive that any fruit has come from your efforts.

Think about the parable of the sower - if the sower had stopped sowing, because the seed fell on the rocks, then there wouldn't be any growth. But he carries on, until the good plants get good soil and grow well, bearing fruit.

The passages in Timothy are useful, but you've misinterpreted them. They are written from someone who was in prison, because of preaching the gospel! The verses before the one you quoted talk about perseverance, and unchaining the gospel. This should encourage us all to keep pressing on, not to avoid disagreements. Yes, avoid 'babble' and pointless arguments, but keep presenting the gospel clearly and in a loving and convincing way.

Jesus debated things with the religious leaders all the time. The bible says he went daily to the temple to do this.

We should expect a lot of flack. It's not an easy message for lots of people to digest. Lots of people do lack respect and logic, but that's no reason to stop. I'm not saying everyone should join internet forums either.

We have been given the Holy Spirit - not a spirit of timidity but of boldness and power and authority, to use to communicate things in a way more powerful than mere words. It's this we should pray for each time we post, not having confidence in our own words but seeking God's words and his power and love to change hearts.