Christmas-less Christians?

Where Christians can get together and discuss

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18155
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 673 times
Contact:

Christmas-less Christians?

Post #1

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Can one still be considered Christian if one chooses not to celebrate Christmas?

Opinions welcome.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3211
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Jesus, send from Heaven as Jehovah's Witnesses believe?

Post #11

Post by The Tanager »

[Replying to post 9 by JehovahsWitness]

Could you summarize the points in the article for us to discuss? What makes celebrating Christmas incompatible with Christianity?

Wootah
Savant
Posts: 7977
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Post #12

Post by Wootah »

It's best to not be pharisaical and I think to the extent we can, we should participate in the culture.

Paul said as much. I know there is a verse I am thinking of.

I do think we should recognise the pagan roots of Christmas and Ishtar.

It's best to steer clear of JW links or advice.

Here is a site I've found agreeable.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Ishtar-Easter.html
Last edited by Wootah on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18155
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 673 times
Contact:

Post #13

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 11 by Wootah]

Line ONE Are you a Christian?


Line TWO I do believe this site is for Christians only.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18155
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 673 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus, send from Heaven as Jehovah's Witnesses believe?

Post #14

Post by JehovahsWitness »

The Tanager wrote: [Replying to post 9 by JehovahsWitness]

Could you summarize the points in the article for us to discuss? What makes celebrating Christmas incompatible with Christianity?

Well as one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES I believe God is displeased when his worshippers mix that which is of pagan religious origins with his worship. Since Christmas was essentially a pagan religious ceremony adopted by the so-called Christian church, we choose to refrain from participating in it on the grounds that its customs and symbolism has not become entirely divorced from its religious orgins.


JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Wootah
Savant
Posts: 7977
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:16 am
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Post #15

Post by Wootah »

[Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm a Christian. Jesus is Lord and Saviour.

The Holy Huddleroom most certainly doesn't contain just Christians from my experience.
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

Member Notes: viewtopic.php?t=33826

Looking for head to head debates, especially on contradictions or the Trinity. PM me your topic.

"Why is everyone so quick to reason God might be petty. Now that is creating God in our own image :)."

Edit preferences to remove all the fluff: ucp.php?i=ucp_prefs&mode=view

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18155
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 673 times
Contact:

Post #16

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Wootah wrote: [Replying to post 12 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm a Christian. Jesus is Lord and Saviour.

The Holy Huddleroom most certainly doesn't contain just Christians from my experience.
Oh, I thought you were an atheist or an anti-god agnotistic; my bad.

If you believe you are a Christian that's fine.


JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3211
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Re: Jesus, send from Heaven as Jehovah's Witnesses believe?

Post #17

Post by The Tanager »

JehovahsWitness wrote:Well as one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES I believe God is displeased when his worshippers mix that which is of pagan religious origins with his worship. Since Christmas was essentially a pagan religious ceremony adopted by the so-called Christian church, we choose to refrain from participating in it on the grounds that its customs and symbolism has not become entirely divorced from its religious orgins.


JW
But let's talk specifics. What specific customs and symbols hold their pagan religious meanings?

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18155
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 673 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus, send from Heaven as Jehovah's Witnesses believe?

Post #18

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 16 by The Tanager]

THE DATE

“ The date of December 25 for the celebration of Christmas is not the result of a strict chronological anniversary but, rather, of the Christianization of the festivals of the winter solstice.� � - The Enciclopedia Hispánica

“Christmas . . . was borrowed from the pre-Christian worship of gods ‘dying and rising from the dead,’ which was especially prevalent among agricultural peoples who, in a period usually confined to the winter solstice from December 21-25, annually celebrated the ‘birth’ of the God-Savior, who wakens nature to new life.� - Great Soviet Encyclopedia

“The reason that the Roman Church decided to assign this date to the festival seems to be its tendency to replace pagan festivals with Christian ones. . . . We know that in Rome at that time, the pagans consecrated December 25 as the celebration of natalis invicti, the birth of the ‘invincible sun.’�- Enciclopedia de la Religión Católica

"The ... festivities, centred on 25 December, were deeply rooted in popular tradition. This gave the Church of Rome the idea of impressing a Christian religious significance on the day by replacing the Sun god with the true Sun of Justice, Jesus Christ, choosing it as the day on which to celebrate his birth.� - L’Osservatore Romano, (Catholic newspaper)

“The custom of commemorating the day of birth is connected, in its form, with the reckoning of time, and, in its content, with certain primitive religious principles.� - Hastings’ Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics


“The date of December 25 does not correspond to Christ’s birth but to the feast of the Natalis Solis Invicti, the Roman sun festival at the solstice.� - The New Catholic Encyclopedia


“Christmas has been celebrated on December 25 starting around the third century . . . This date falls approximately on the day of the winter solstice, and it took over the pre-Christian festival of the rebirth of the Sun.� - Encyclopedia of Japanese Religions


“In the middle of this period of general gaiety,there was a day set aside for special reverence to the sun whose apparent rebirth on the Winter Solstice had originally provided the excuse for all these widespread pagan jollifications. This day was known as Dies Solis Invicti Nati, the Day of the Birth of the Unconquered Sun, and it fell on what corresponds to 25 December in our calendar.� - Dr. Robert Conway, The Story of Christmas
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Dec 11, 2017 10:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

User avatar
The Tanager
Prodigy
Posts: 3211
Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 11:08 am
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 47 times

Post #19

Post by The Tanager »

And you feel it was wrong for Christians to try to redeem or Christianize pagan festivals? You think it was wrong for Christians to say to the wider community that Jesus is the true God who died and rose again, awakening the whole world to a new way of living? And to say that Jesus is the unconquered son? The true Son of Justice?

User avatar
JehovahsWitness
Savant
Posts: 18155
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:03 am
Has thanked: 438 times
Been thanked: 673 times
Contact:

Re: Jesus, send from Heaven as Jehovah's Witnesses believe?

Post #20

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 17 by JehovahsWitness]

THE TREE
“Tree worship, common among the pagan Europeans, survived after their conversion to Christianity in the Scandinavian customs of decorating the house and barn with evergreens at the New Year to scare away the devil and of setting up a tree for the birds during Christmastime.� - The New Encyclopædia Britannica

“The tree . . . was not especially favored. Its association as a death-symbol and its link with ‘the underworld’ according to Russian tradition. . . The clergy saw in the new celebration ... a pagan tradition, which had nothing to do with the birth of the Savior.�—Professor Yelena V. Dushechkina,, St. Petersburg State University.

THE LIGHTS
“It was apparently the fusion of two old customs—lights with evergreens—which gave us our modern Christmas-tree" - Michael Harrison, The Story of Christmas.

THE YULE LOG
“The Yule Log is the dead stock of Nimrod, deified as the sun-god, but cut down by his enemies; the Christmas-tree is Nimrod redivivus—the slain god come to life again.�— Professor Hislop, The Two Babylons, pages 97, 98

"... Celtic and pagan civilizations throughout Northern Europe would celebrate and sacrifice to the Norse god, Jul (Though pronounced and contemporarily recognized as "Yule."), and celebrate their Yule Tide festival. This is the tradition from which we have our Yule log, today. The Germanic practice, however, involved cutting down a massive hardwood log that was large enough to burn for twelve days of feasting and sacrifice, and served as a fertility symbol to both help with the coming of spring and prophesize its bounty." - History of the Christmas Tree, http://delongfarms.com/tree_1.html
THE FESTIVITIES
“Ordinary life was by common consent turned topsy-turvy; people gave up serious occupations, and when they were not feasting at one another’s houses, they roamed about the streets calling to one another ‘Io Saturnalia’ just as we say ‘Merry Christmas’ . . . You were expected at this festival to make some present to all your friends; . . . you were thought to be a quite unsociable person if you were sober all through the Saturnalia!� - Dr. Robert Conway, Ancient Italy and Modern Religion

"And do we ... celebrate the feasts of Saturn, and of January, and of the Winter solstice...? Are we not afraid lest we be openly declared to be heathens!� - Tertullian, Apologetic and practical treatises
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

Post Reply