Keeping the commandments

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Keeping the commandments

Post #1

Post by otseng »

Are you able to keep all the commandments?

The Bible commands us to keep all the commandments.

[Deut 6:1-2 KJV] 1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: 2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

Jesus said we need to keep the commandments to have life.

[Mat 19:17 KJV] 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

We commonly view keeping the commandments as impossible and burdensome. In one sense it is, but in another sense, it's not.

In both the Hebrew and Greek, the word keep has a broad range of meaning. In Hebrew, two words are used for keep: 'asah and shamar. In Greek, keep is tēre�. Keep has the meaning of observing and doing, but it also has the idea of treasuring, taking care of, guarding, watching over, protecting.

Adam was told to keep the garden of Eden.

[Gen 2:15 KJV] 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Cain asked God if he was to keep Abel.

[Gen 4:9 KJV] 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper?

Jacob kept his sheep.

[Gen 30:31 KJV] 31 And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed [and] keep thy flock:

Jesus kept his disciples.

[Jhn 17:12 KJV] 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Jesus prayed for the disciples to be kept from evil.

[Jhn 17:15 KJV] 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Would it be impossible and burdensome to treasure, watch over, and protect God's commandments? I submit it is not impossible and is not burdensome.

We should keep the commandments by observing them and also treasuring them. I think we should first have an attitude of treasuring and taking care of the commandments. And then out of that heart of treasuring, obey the commandments.

[1Jo 5:3 KJV] 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[Exo 20:5-6 KJV] 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

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Post #2

Post by Tart »

This is nice in theory, yes, but it depends what you mean by "commands"...

Is it the 10 commandments? If so, im totally on that page. Dont break the law.

Is it "Love God and Love Neighbor"? In which case, ya that is hard sometimes, and i think people who claim otherwise might be deceiving themselves and others...

Or is it living faithful? Like Paul summed up righteousness? That is simply not possible all the time, but maybe it is if you get philosophical on it.

Is it the Fruits of the Spirit, vs the Lust of the Flesh in Galatians 5? Good in theory, maybe not totally doable in all ones life. Or "dont lust, dont hate"~Jesus.. Nice in theory.. Not doable in all of life.

Or how about "dont judge people"~Jesus... That would make the world a hole lot better place, but people simply dont follow this stuff...

I want to make it clear, i dont want to throw out anything as if we dont need to follow it, im just thinking realistically about this, is it really easy to keep the commands?

10 commandments, yes... the rest of the stuff i spoke on... I think you might be deceiving people to suggest it is easy to do it...

Why not just admit fault instead, and say "no"?

"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us."

Last night I pondered this... People always judging me for not being perfect... And i told that voice, "you need to believe in Jesus, and not the law", and he went to the cross and questioned it. Then he started accusing a girl there for doing bad as she had her head down in the presence of the cross... yes it was a vision... And i thought? Arent we suppose to be free in Christ? Not slaves to the law?

Is it easy to follow the law? Its impossible... The Bible says so... That is the exact reason God sent His Son, because we cant save ourselves...

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Post #3

Post by otseng »

Tart wrote: 10 commandments, yes... the rest of the stuff i spoke on... I think you might be deceiving people to suggest it is easy to do it...
I'm not suggesting it's easy to do and observe the commandments. I'm suggesting it's possible to treasure and protect the commandments. My main point is we place too much emphasis on observing the law, but hardly ever talk about protecting and tending after the commandments.

The law is not meant to just be a burden, but it can be a delight and something we treasure.

[Psa 1:2 KJV] 2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

[Psa 19:7-8 KJV] 7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD [are] right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD [is] pure, enlightening the eyes.

[Psa 119:97 KJV] 97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.

[Psa 119:127 KJV] 127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

At first, it seems ridiculous that we can love the law. But, the problem is not the law, but our own hearts. The law was not given to limit us and prevent us from having joy. Instead, the law is to show us the way to life. The speed limit is not there to prevent us from having the joy of racing down the highway, but to protect people from accidents. Curfew is not to deprive teenagers from having fun, but to protect them from getting into trouble.

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Post #4

Post by Tart »

otseng wrote:
Tart wrote: 10 commandments, yes... the rest of the stuff i spoke on... I think you might be deceiving people to suggest it is easy to do it...
I'm not suggesting it's easy to do and observe the commandments. I'm suggesting it's possible to treasure and protect the commandments. My main point is we place too much emphasis on observing the law, but hardly ever talk about protecting and tending after the commandments.

The law is not meant to just be a burden, but it can be a delight and something we treasure.

[Psa 1:2 KJV] 2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

[Psa 19:7-8 KJV] 7 The law of the LORD [is] perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD [is] sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD [are] right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD [is] pure, enlightening the eyes.

[Psa 119:97 KJV] 97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.

[Psa 119:127 KJV] 127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.

At first, it seems ridiculous that we can love the law. But, the problem is not the law, but our own hearts. The law was not given to limit us and prevent us from having joy. Instead, the law is to show us the way to life. The speed limit is not there to prevent us from having the joy of racing down the highway, but to protect people from accidents. Curfew is not to deprive teenagers from having fun, but to protect them from getting into trouble.
Like with most comments, i agree and disagree... I agree that perhaps, the law is good (im actually still questioning this in my own heart, if i can truly believe that).

But this quote for example:
"Instead, the law is to show us the way to life."

But Paul wrote the law is not the way to life, but instead it is what made of conscious of sin, which brings death... he said

"7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.� 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death."

"21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"


It kind of blows my mind, that you are talking about the law as how we come to life, but never mentioned Jesus.

Through the law, comes the convictions of our sins, and death. But through Jesus comes life.. And Paul as Paul wrote "what a wrenched man i am", because he is acknowledging the battle between sin that lives within him, and the law, and how it subjects him to Death... But Glory to God, for life comes through Jesus Christ....

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Post #5

Post by Tart »

shoot.. if the law is how we come to life, we are all dead men... And who here is going to deny it? Throw a stone in the air...


Who doesnt hate sometimes? Who doesnt lust sometimes? Who doesnt judge sometimes? Who isnt jealous sometimes? Who isnt prideful sometimes? Who isnt lazy sometimes? Who isnt faithful sometimes?

we are dead men without Christ...

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Post #6

Post by otseng »

Tart wrote: Like with most comments, i agree and disagree... I agree that perhaps, the law is good (im actually still questioning this in my own heart, if i can truly believe that).
Yes, I agree that the law in itself will not bring life. Ultimately, the law leads us to life by pointing to Jesus. But, to go back to the heart issue, I think we've been conditioned too long by the lies of the devil, skeptics, and even preachers, that the law is bad. I don't think it should be such a burden that many people place on it.

Think about David, who was the only person described as a man after God's own heart.

[1Sa 13:14 KJV] 14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him [to be] captain over his people, because thou hast not kept [that] which the LORD commanded thee.

He committed adultery and plotted to have the husband killed. If anyone had some pretty significant moral failings, it was David. Yet, he was also the one who penned many of the Psalms. He didn't keep the law by obeying all of the law. However, he did keep the law in that he treasured it.

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Post #7

Post by Tart »

otseng wrote:
Tart wrote: Like with most comments, i agree and disagree... I agree that perhaps, the law is good (im actually still questioning this in my own heart, if i can truly believe that).
Yes, I agree that the law in itself will not bring life. Ultimately, the law leads us to life by pointing to Jesus. But, to go back to the heart issue, I think we've been conditioned too long by the lies of the devil, skeptics, and even preachers, that the law is bad. I don't think it should be such a burden that many people place on it.

Think about David, who was the only person described as a man after God's own heart.

[1Sa 13:14 KJV] 14 But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him [to be] captain over his people, because thou hast not kept [that] which the LORD commanded thee.

He committed adultery and plotted to have the husband killed. If anyone had some pretty significant moral failings, it was David. Yet, he was also the one who penned many of the Psalms. He didn't keep the law by obeying all of the law. However, he did keep the law in that he treasured it.
I suppose... but you dont keep the law... right? Like who keeps the law? You broke the law... I broke the law...

Paul also wrote

"All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." (Galatians 3:10)

And what saved us anyways? Jesus? Or the Law? What is the Gospel we first heard?

I was saved by Jesus... That is why i even believe in the law. Because Christ was the fulfillment of the law, whom my salvation rest within...

Then i went to church, and people started preaching the law... Which isnt in itself, necessarily bad (actually im still wrestling with this. Im not sure if its bad or not)... And that is fine, but then salvation slowly turns into abiding the law... And away from Jesus Christ...

And this is what i think Paul was talking about in Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!

Preaching salvation from the law... Or life comes from obeying law. It isnt the Gospel i first heard, and its no gospel at all.. Ya i see preachers say it, and it seems like my brothers and sisters in the body start hiding sin. Being ashamed of themselves. Start accusing others of sin, and themselves too. Start living unfaithfully because it is impossible to fulfill the law, like some preachers want us to believe... Whom they fall themselves.. Even though some of them claim otherwise.... And Jesus is put on the back-burner...

Dude, you dont observe the law perfectly.. period... that is nonsense... Who would ever make such a claim?

"it is how you interpret the word"... its like lets get semantical on this...

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Post #8

Post by Tart »

maybe we should "treasure and preserve" Jesus Christ...

"10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ." (Galatians 1, continued)

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Re: Keeping the commandments

Post #9

Post by tam »

Peace to you both,


I must agree with Tart on us not being under the law, and especially about it being Christ we should treasure (He even said that the one who loves Him will keep His commands, John 14:21; 23). I do not have much more to add, so I will just chime in a bit.
otseng wrote: Are you able to keep all the commandments?

The Bible commands us to keep all the commandments.

[Deut 6:1-2 KJV] 1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it: 2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

The Bible does not command this of us. This was not said to or commanded of us at all. This was part of the covenant between God and Israel (mediated by Moses).

Jesus said we need to keep the commandments to have life.

[Mat 19:17 KJV] 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Christ was not speaking to us when He said this. He was speaking to a Jew born under the law and as a part of the old covenant (summed up in your quote from Deuteronomy).


Christ did say this though:

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life... John 3:36


For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

“Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. - just a portion from John 6:25-58





We commonly view keeping the commandments as impossible and burdensome. In one sense it is, but in another sense, it's not.



In both the Hebrew and Greek, the word keep has a broad range of meaning. In Hebrew, two words are used for keep: 'asah and shamar. In Greek, keep is tēre�. Keep has the meaning of observing and doing, but it also has the idea of treasuring, taking care of, guarding, watching over, protecting.

Adam was told to keep the garden of Eden.

[Gen 2:15 KJV] 15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.

Cain asked God if he was to keep Abel.

[Gen 4:9 KJV] 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper?

Jacob kept his sheep.

[Gen 30:31 KJV] 31 And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed [and] keep thy flock:

Jesus kept his disciples.

[Jhn 17:12 KJV] 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Jesus prayed for the disciples to be kept from evil.

[Jhn 17:15 KJV] 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Would it be impossible and burdensome to treasure, watch over, and protect God's commandments? I submit it is not impossible and is not burdensome.
Perhaps, perhaps not. But why do this to begin with?


Why take your eyes off Christ... to place them back upon the law? A law that does not save and that was meant to be a tutor leading Israel to Christ?


We should keep the commandments by observing them and also treasuring them. I think we should first have an attitude of treasuring and taking care of the commandments. And then out of that heart of treasuring, obey the commandments.
Is it not God and His Son we should be treasuring? Not the law (a thing), but a person (the Christ, the One to whom God said to listen <- is that not the commandment God gave us about His Son: to listen to His Son, to believe in His Son?)




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

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Post #10

Post by otseng »

I think you're reading too much into what I'm saying. I'm not saying the law saves. I'm not saying the law supercedes Christ. The law leads us to Christ. What I'm saying is that the word "keep" is much more than simply obeying and observing; it is also treasuring and protecting. And it is in this aspect that it is not impossible to keep the law.

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